Debt picked up by bank after 3 and a half years of no contact. Looking for advice

treblec

Update. I have still not received a CCA or any other correspondence from Lloyds.

What would the next course of action be?

Thanks

sourcrates

treblec wrote: »

Update. I have still not received a CCA or any other correspondence from Lloyds.

What would the next course of action be?

Thanks

Give it till after Christmas, if still no reply, send a reminder letter to hurry them up.

fatbelly

It's unenforceable until they comply.

The ball is in their court.

treblec

When i arrived home today a letter had been delivered.

It looks as if its some sort of standard /templated response, which was sent back along with the CCA request letter that we sent and also the postal order, albeit with a "Lloyds Banking Group" stamp next to the "pay" part of the order, so whether its been used or not I couldn't say.

The letter says "we refer to your attached letter and confirm that:-

Section 78 only applies during the lifetime of the agreement.

In view of the above we are unable to provide you with documentation as requested."

The part of the letter that had the "section 78 only........ " response was a tick box of multiple answers they could have given, they'd simply ticked that box and sent it.

I'm completely unaware of what to do next.

In my over simplified mind its almost as if they are saying you owe us £11000 but we can't tell you how???

sourcrates

treblec wrote: »

When i arrived home today a letter had been delivered.

It looks as if its some sort of standard /templated response, which was sent back along with the CCA request letter that we sent and also the postal order, albeit with a "Lloyds Banking Group" stamp next to the "pay" part of the order, so whether its been used or not I couldn't say.

The letter says "we refer to your attached letter and confirm that:-

Section 78 only applies during the lifetime of the agreement.

In view of the above we are unable to provide you with documentation as requested."

The part of the letter that had the "section 78 only........ " response was a tick box of multiple answers they could have given, they'd simply ticked that box and sent it.

I'm completely unaware of what to do next.

In my over simplified mind its almost as if they are saying you owe us £11000 but we can't tell you how???

Absolute rubbish !!!!!!

Section 78 applies as long as there is a balance on the account.

What they are actually telling you is that they don't even have enough information about you, to cobble together a reconstituted copy agreement.

As things stand your account is unenforceable in court.
They can still ask you to pay, but they cannot enforce the agreement through the courts, congratulations.

I'm sure Fatbelly will concur.

treblec

Sourcrates, thank you very much for the reply.

Should i just simply sit and wait now or is there a letter or response i should reply back to them stating something to the above or similar?

I would imagine Lloyds will still send out further letters demanding payments, and i don't want to simply ignore any letters if thats not the right course of action.

Although i'm not very au fait with legalities, rights and such in these matters i have tried to look around and found a link provided by sourcrates in another thread.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

In this i found no mention of a lifetime of the agreement ( i had found that whilst googling the phrase in another thread) but did take note of section 13.1.6.2 and also further on in section 13.1.6.8 under the failure to comply header, with respect they should make it clear they can't enforce the debt, although it is still outstanding, in any future correspondence.

If they do not, this is why i asked should i have some sort of reply to them, although i could be barking up a very wrong tree also?

Thanks again to you and and everyone else.

fatbelly

It's an odd response, which you can ask them to clarify if you wish.

I take it they are referring to s78 (3), which says:


(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor

i.e the balance owing has been cleared or written off and, as such, no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor.

Therefore you can file this one away and you have a complete defence to any court claim.

sourcrates

treblec wrote: »

Sourcrates, thank you very much for the reply.

Should i just simply sit and wait now or is there a letter or response i should reply back to them stating something to the above or similar?

I would imagine Lloyds will still send out further letters demanding payments, and i don't want to simply ignore any letters if thats not the right course of action.

Although i'm not very au fait with legalities, rights and such in these matters i have tried to look around and found a link provided by sourcrates in another thread.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

In this i found no mention of a lifetime of the agreement ( i had found that whilst googling the phrase in another thread) but did take note of section 13.1.6.2 and also further on in section 13.1.6.8 under the failure to comply header, with respect they should make it clear they can't enforce the debt, although it is still outstanding, in any future correspondence.

If they do not, this is why i asked should i have some sort of reply to them, although i could be barking up a very wrong tree also?

Thanks again to you and and everyone else.

Fatbelly covers it in post 18 above !!!

treblec

Thank you both.

So i should send a new letter simply asking to clarify why they cannot give me a CCA, in this should i ask which section of the Act they refer to when saying they cannot provide me, or do i point them specifically at section 78 subsection 3 as a helping hand?

Something like.

Further to my letter dated xx and your response dated xx. Can you please tell me why my request for a CCA on account xxx cannot be completed. You state in your letter that this is due to section 78 only being applicable to the lifetime of the agreement, could you please be more specific as i understand it is applicable as long as there is a balance owing on the account.

Yours, xxxx

I'd rather word a response properly and not tie myself up or shoot myself in the foot here.


Just as an addition to the above, is it plausible a big bank would play in this way, trying to coax a perhaps unenforceable debt from someone by being selective about what they are telling you? I would have never put it past a DCA or the like but perhaps rather naively i wouldn't expect it from a major bank and this is why i have some doubts??

Thanks again for your patience and advice.

sourcrates

I've just tweaked it up a little for you :

Dear Sir/Madam,

Further to my letter dated xxxxxx and your response dated xxxxxx.

I take it you are referring to s78 CCA (3), which says:

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor

i.e the balance owing has been cleared or written off and, as such, no sum is, or will, or may become, payable by the debtor.

So, for the avoidance of any doubt, are you saying no debt exists on this account, is that assumption correct ?

If that is not the case, can you please tell me why my request for information (CCA request) on account xxxxxx cannot be completed.

You state in your letter that this is due to section 78 only being applicable to the lifetime of the agreement, but under the consumer credit act 1974 a debtor has the right to ask a creditor for a copy of there agreement and a statement of there account for as long as a balance remains on the account.

Clearly there are some inconsistencies here, either the debtor has no liability to you, or you are unable to supply a copy agreement and statement as required under sec 77-79 CCA 1974.

Either way the alleged debt, by your own admission, is unenforceable through the courts.

If you would care to elaborate on this matter, please do so with in the next 14 days.

Yours sincerely,