Has anyone been through NHS complaints process? Advice please!

Bogalot

The first thing you need to understand about the NHS complaints procedure is that it is defensive. The chances of them admitting to a mistake (if one has been made) are minimal, they'll do everything they can to explain away your concerns, even to turn the blame back to yourself.

I feel for PALS staff, they want to be helpful but as you have found they are very limited in what they can do.

I would still say to complain, but expect little from the outcome. It may be a way to get you referred elsewhere, if they think that will placate you they may be able to facilitate that.

That's not to say that I don't love the NHS. I've been on both sides, an NHS manager and a patient, and the way complaints are handled is shameful.

MrsMs_2

missbiggles1 wrote: »

While you're still on full salary, why not invest some money in seeing a consultant of your choice privately?

My salary reduces next month and my husband is just back in work after 5-6 months unemployment due to redundancy, so we've depleted our savings during his time out of work. He has also taken a £400/month pay cut to get back in work. Normally, our savings cover Christmas, but this year I'm having to rely on this wage and next. I only buy for my nieces and nephews, but as I can't get out, I'm having to pay postage costs for the bits I'm buying, which is also bumping up the cost right up to my budget. Also to factor in is taxi fares to appointments (£18 round trip to the hospital/physio), food deliveries, etc which is costing me a fortune. I can't even SORN my car as I have no off road parking, so I'm paying for tax & insurance I'm not currently using.

If I have no luck being refered to my preferred hospital, I know that they do take on private patients, so I could perhaps put it on a credit card if absolutely necessary.

I'm not making excuses about the money, just that things have been so tight almost all year and we've really got a tight budget now to clear our last bit of debt and cover the next couple of months bills. I loathe to take on more debt to pay for an appointment I should really be given free as I've paid tax/NI since I was 16.

MrsMs_2

sheramber wrote: »

How to make a complaint about an NHS service

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1084.aspx?categoryid=68

How do I Get a Second Opinion

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/910.aspx

Thanks for the links.

I've already spoken to PALS and she just suggested that she could ask the consultant if he'd be willing to see me again, which I declined. I will call her back once I know what outcome I'd like from the complaint so she can talk me through the correct process.

I didn't realise the CAB offered advice in this area though. I did look at their site last week and saw a link to a charity, who advised me to persue the second opinion, which I'm doing.

MrsMs_2

jack_pott wrote: »

Yes, I have. I'm currently 18 months into the complaints process and no further forward than the day I started. The system is corrupt, so beware: trust nobody!

I haven't got time to type a longer reply at the moment, so I'll get back to you with more details later, meanwhile you could read the following:

Patients Association report into the complaint system:
In Summary
In full

Pressure group campaigning against the corruption of the Health Ombudsman:
PHSO The Facts

Two words of warning: get your medical records before you start your complaint, and the independent advocacy service are not independent.

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble navigating the complaints process.

Thanks for the links, I've bookmarked them now. I've had a read, but will go through them properly tonight.

I will request my medical records this week is getting access to them just a subject access request/freedom of information request with a £10 fee?

MrsMs_2

Bogalot wrote: »

The first thing you need to understand about the NHS complaints procedure is that it is defensive. The chances of them admitting to a mistake (if one has been made) are minimal, they'll do everything they can to explain away your concerns, even to turn the blame back to yourself.

I feel for PALS staff, they want to be helpful but as you have found they are very limited in what they can do.

I would still say to complain, but expect little from the outcome. It may be a way to get you referred elsewhere, if they think that will placate you they may be able to facilitate that.

That's not to say that I don't love the NHS. I've been on both sides, an NHS manager and a patient, and the way complaints are handled is shameful.

I very much got this impression! At one of my appointments when I saw a consultant that said "had I have seen you first, this would've been operated on", he refused to put it in writing and then started backing up the other consultant. Both my husband and friend were there when it was said, but he refused to put it in writing, which I wanted, to support my request for a second opinion.

The PALS lady I spoke to seemed nice, but she did seem very rushed. she couldn't give any advice other than she could ask the consultant I was under to see me in fracture clinic again. I think a referral to the specialist hospital would give an unbiased opinion as the doctors wouldn't know each other. The initial consultant I saw in the fracture clinic works across a few hospitals (private and NHS) in my area.

Thanks for the advice I need to be prepared to get nowhere! I suppose the advantage would be that it's on file and if they had multiple complaints about the same issue, there's a chance change may happen.

I can't fault the NHS on the most part. There have been issues with my dad being diagnosed and treated for cancer (process of diagnosis took 2 years), but on the other hand, they've been fantastic with my mum. For example, last week, her oxygen wasn't delivered. She's under a hospital in Lancashire and lives in Wales, and they sent a canister in a taxi for her so she didn't run out. Apparently her local hospital doesn't have a supply of the correct oxygen as it has helium mixed with it. I guess it's swings and roundabouts, although, there's plenty of scope for improvement in many areas, just a shame the staff are so overworked and there's not enough funding to ensure everyone is treated the best they can be.

elsien

You don't have to go through PALS to complain, just follow the complaints procedure and write to the chief executive.
I would also disagree with Jack Potts that all advocacy services are not independent - he has one experience and I have another. (Fwiw I am an advocate, although not with NHS complaints.)

ripplyuk

I totally agree with Bogalot and jack_pott. I've been through the complaints procedure and it was shockingly bad. OP, don't go into this expecting any sort of apology/admission of fault or mistakes as the outcome. You'll simply never get it. The whole process will leave you totally frustrated, to the point where it seems unreal.

However, you should make the complaint. It's the right thing to do, and in many cases the only thing you can do. We all need more people to speak up, and hopefully someday it will change things for the better, for everyone.

sillyvixen

Sorry you have had this experience, I have had a simular experience with a multiple fracture - so much messing about with will operate / won't operate, that I started taking my mum (ex nurse) to appointments! Each time I went to fracture clinic they found another fracture (on second visit 2nd fracture was diagnosed on original A&E x-ray!! They were going to plate the fracture untill ct scan showed further fracture, Dr drew diagram stating shoulder fracture would need plating from shoulder to just above elbow and went to see consultant who came into the room and basically told me no surgery just physio was needed. Fracture 4 was interesting x-ray was taken by a student radiologist - who struggled to concentrate the photo on the shoulder area and as a result ended up with Half my arm in the x-ray. She called another member oaf staff and asked if the x-ray should be cut down, the answer was no, I was shown fracture 4 by a radiologist, mid shaft humerous spiral fracture (oddly enough where the pain was "referring to") back in fracture clinic nurse zooms I on fracture 4 and has conversation with my mum as to how bad it is, Dr comes in and states no fracture there! And turns of computer screen. Eventually I need surgery for all 4 fractures after 3 months. Pals us less (only there to tell you medical professionals are right in a nice way). Mum (ex nurse) states we .can Not win against the nhs as they will close ranks ,GP has been told fracture 4 never existed and won't refer me for 2nc opinion! Can't afford private consult and x-ray, my arm still clicks in the middle 3 1/2 years later!!

Nhs corruption at its best.

softwaremad

Omg absolutely appalled about this treatment and lack thereof you have endured.

I would file a complaint and make it a strong one send to the chucked exec of both hospitals to date.

Here's what I would do if it were me because it is imperative that this injury gets fixed beforehand it becomes a life long disability. I would get to another hospital in another area and I would not leave until someone didnsomthing proactive. I would cause a tight rucus. Disgusting that they leave someone with a break like that.

So just rock up at a&e at another health board Ina day trip etc you are in agony. And demand that you are helped and treated appropriately. Then I would get a solicitor and take those doctors down a peg or two and have them held to account for their appalling actions and lack of x. Good luck lovely. Xx

MonkeyDr

Hi OP

As you know, I have a lot of sympathy for your plight, and would certainly complain in your position. This post is largely in response to the previous poster.

I work in the NHS but have no experience at all of being involved in a formal complaint (thankfully), so have no idea about cover-ups or otherwise. I would be absolutely ashamed if I ever thought I was even close to that.

However, I do not think that going in all guns blazing in the right approach. Yes, be assertive, but I think it is far too difficult to tell from the information presented whether your care has actually been remiss or not. (the communication certainly has been, for sure, and it is worth investigating the rest).

Unfortunately it is just not the case that all problems are easily fixed, and it is not true that if things get worse the nasty doctors must be at fault. Bad stuff happens to nice people, and there isn't always someone to blame. Let's say condition x can be treated by y or z (one of which could well be 'do nothing'). 95 out of 100 people get better with treatment y (we can't predict which 95), but only 60 out of 100 get better with treatment z. So we should follow the evidence base and always do treatment y as it works for more people. But that will still leave 5 out of 100 people who don't get better, or get better slower. They are unlucky; they have not been treated negligently.

Of course medical negligence does exist, and bad practice should be improved, and that's why people should complain, and why more medical staff should speak up. Which they won't while our incessant blame culture persists.

But though I really know very little orthopaedics, I remember from my brief experience a decade ago that the decision to operate or not was not always straightforward. A quick bit of googling finds current advice from the US that suggests that not operating might be reasonable on pretty much any sort of ankle fracture, depending on the details (http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00391) - note I do not endorse this website, but it is from a respected body so is a decent source.

Demanding an instant fix at a new hospital will not be helpful. I don't know if the best management now would be surgery or not, anyway. Sometimes time does work.

Do ask for a referral to where you want to be seen. Also contact the secretary of the team in the hospital you have already been to and ask them to ensure that all notes and images are sent across (when you know where you're going). This can take a while, and is unlikely to be done automatically. Your GP probably won't have access to do it.

I hope your ankle gets better soon.