Same property but recorded twice at LR

Chanes

I was registering properties with the Property Alert feature at the Land Registry and one of them is recorded as both Leasehold and as a Freehold. How can that happen? It is the exact same property that is owned outright.

Any suggestions before I contact the LR?

davidmcn

Any leasehold property will also have a freehold interest (i.e the freeholder's title). If it's the leaseholder's title you want to set up the alert for, then that's the one you pick.

Or do you mean you didn't think there was a lease involved?

Chanes

davidmcn wrote: »

Any leasehold property will also have a freehold interest (i.e the freeholder's title). If it's the leaseholder's title you want to set up the alert for, then that's the one you pick.

Or do you mean you didn't think there was a lease involved?

Other houses are either Freehold or Leasehold but that one is named twice once as a Freehold and then as a Leasehold. It surely cannot be both, can it? It must be either a lease or not. I suspect the previous owner bought the Freehold and somewhere along the way it has not been recorded correctly, it was bought as a Freehold!

eddddy

Chanes wrote: »

Other houses are either Freehold or Leasehold but that one is named twice once as a Freehold and then as a Leasehold. It surely cannot be both, can it? It must be either a lease or not. I suspect the previous owner bought the Freehold and somewhere along the way it has not been recorded correctly, it was bought as a Freehold!

No - as davidmcn says, a Leasehold property MUST also have a freehold.

If somebody buys a leasehold property, it means that somebody else still owns the freehold.


But it's strange that you believe you've bought a freehold property, without realising that a leasehold exists.

Have you checked the title plans to see if both refer to exactly the same land? (For example, could it be that your garden is leasehold?)

Chanes

eddddy wrote: »

No - as davidmcn says, a Leasehold property MUST also have a freehold.

If somebody buys a leasehold property, it means that somebody else still owns the freehold.


But it's strange that you believe you've bought a freehold property, without realising that a leasehold exists.

Have you checked the title plans to see if both refer to exactly the same land? (For example, could it be that your garden is leasehold?)

If you buy a leasehold someone else would own the freehold, I understand that but both instances recorded at the LR? Wouldn't that mean every leasehold property would be recorded twice just like this one? Another leasehold I have isn't recorded twice, just this one. I'm pretty sure it is exactly the property and not a parcel of it. It was bought as a freehold, this has only come to light because of the alert process.

It just seems weird, I wonder if anyone else has experienced such a thing?

eddddy

Chanes wrote: »

If you buy a leasehold someone else would own the freehold, I understand that but both instances recorded at the LR? Wouldn't that mean every leasehold property would be recorded twice just like this one? Another leasehold I have isn't recorded twice, just this one. I'm pretty sure it is exactly the property and not a parcel of it. It was bought as a freehold, this has only come to light because of the alert process.

It just seems weird, I wonder if anyone else has experienced such a thing?

Freeholds and leaseholds are both registered with LR. So there's absolutely nothing weird in what you describe.


Now I'm guessing this isn't your house you're talking about, so you don't know the actual details.

Robin9

My last house had a garage in a block down the road. I bought both as one purchase - threshold in this case.

Could this sort of set-up generate 2 LR entries ?

Chanes

eddddy wrote: »

Freeholds and leaseholds are both registered with LR. So there's absolutely nothing weird in what you describe.


Now I'm guessing this isn't your house you're talking about, so you don't know the actual details.

The family own a good number of properties, they are an interest to all of us but I don't live in that one and I just think it is a curious thing to do when no other property we have is recorded that way.

I guess I should ask a conveyancer. But thanks for the reply!

anselld

Chanes wrote: »

The family own a good number of properties, they are an interest to all of us but I don't live in that one and I just think it is a curious thing to do when no other property we have is recorded that way.

I guess I should ask a conveyancer. But thanks for the reply!

Every Leasehold is part of a Freehold. Both are recorded.
It would be very curious if you had a Leasehold which is *not* within another Freehold Title.

AdrianC

anselld wrote: »

Every Leasehold is part of a Freehold. Both are recorded.
It would be very curious if you had a Leasehold which is *not* within another Freehold Title.

Mmm. Would it? Or would it just be that the freehold hadn't been registered, because it hadn't changed for many years?

davidmcn

Chanes wrote: »

If you buy a leasehold someone else would own the freehold, I understand that but both instances recorded at the LR? Wouldn't that mean every leasehold property would be recorded twice just like this one? Another leasehold I have isn't recorded twice, just this one.

Yes, the Land Registry is where all interests are registered, whether leasehold or freehold. There isn't a separate register for freeholds.

You've probably found the freehold interest for this property because it only covers that property and is listed under the specific address. Other freehold interests may be for e.g. a whole housing estate, or they might be unregistered - they'll definitely exist even if you can't easily find them.