New builds... is it just me?

SuzieSue

Furts wrote: »

I have said it before and I stand by my judgement. Indeed, nobody has ever come back and queried my view, so let us see what happens this time!

UK private house building by the large developers like Taywood, Barratt, and so on, reached a peak of design and quality around the later 1980s - later 1990. There after it has been downhill in many ways. Consequently this thread does not surprise me. As one who works in construction it is something I am well aware of.

In some ways this is not surprising. When one looks at a car made today it is likely the paint thickness, the corrosion protection and the all round durability is inferior to cars made 20 years ago. Houses are no different.

I agree with this. I bought my new build in 1997 and it was ok on the whole. However, when the workmen were round to do the snagging they were already talking about Barratts using cheaper materials for the later houses. They were also talking about other tradesmen who had left because they had been offered better paid contracts because of the shortage of skilled labour.

So I think things started really going down hill in the late 1990s when there was a lot of house building as we came out of recession but we didn't have the skilled labour to cope with the increase.

Furts

SuzieSue wrote: »

I agree with this. I bought my new build in 1997 and it was ok on the whole. However, when the workmen were round to do the snagging they were already talking about Barratts using cheaper materials for the later houses. They were also talking about other tradesmen who had left because they had been offered better paid contracts because of the shortage of skilled labour.

So I think things started really going down hill in the late 1990s when there was a lot of house building as we came out of recession but we didn't have the skilled labour to cope with the increase.

To give two that come to mind. I witnessed Bovis make a conscious, board level, decision to cut quality around 1994 -97. The first homes on one development were superb, and formed the showhome complex - the rest were all cost cut. Around the same time I witnessed both Bryant and Alfred McAlpine cost cut the same.

As for Barratt, an enormous hidden flaw was the defective insulation within the cavity walls - cheap, bodged, out of sight and out of mind. There was no way the homes ever met the insulation standards of the day - but nobody cared about this.

patman99

To answer the question asked of me, I am currently employed as a traffic marshall so get to see the houses go from a hole in the ground right up to finished product as I wander the access road sorting-out barriers and stuff.

I have seen at least one major builder use a fire-proof board dry wall to separate a pair of semis, so a 3 newton block wall would be a masive upgrade to that and also much better than the standard thermalite blocks used on the rest of the inner walls. The only thing better would be a double brick wall.

Roof tiles appear to be made from concrete board (having examined one) and are slightly lighter than slate or tile. They are normally secured with 3 copper nails to make sure they don't come adrift in high winds.

It also appears that felt is no longer used, but instead, a breathable membrane is stretched across the roof trusses before vertical and horizontal battons are fixed in place.

SuzieSue

Furts wrote: »

As for Barratt, an enormous hidden flaw was the defective insulation within the cavity walls - cheap, bodged, out of sight and out of mind. There was no way the homes ever met the insulation standards of the day - but nobody cared about this.

Well, my husband always complains that the house is cold (it is a small 3 bed detached). But we don't get any mould on the walls even though I dry all my washing indoors. I would have thought that if it was badly insulated we would get damp spots on the walls.

I_have_spoken

Yep, cheaply thrown together from chipboard and softwood framing.

The most frequently used tool on a building site is the chainsaw! Wood, cinder block, plasterboard, it's all cut with the chainsaw.

All the builders will be have been cheap Polish labour and the council inspector will have been paid off to sign the work as meeting standard.

To save money, the foundations will be shallow and made of 10 parts sand to 1 part cement.

Davesnave

RainbowLaura wrote: »

It gets me down because I do love living here, but worry about the long-term. If I were to buy again, I'd be looking 1930s or earlier.

My 1930s house had 20cm of foundations, so the extension I added with 1metre of the same probably helped to hold it up!

Nevertheless, the bricks used below DPC were wrong, so they were crumbling, meaning the whole of the outer skin was in danger of major failure. None of this could be picked-up by a survey.

I'm glad my retirement isn't being spent in that house.

I think one could find plenty of examples of Jerry-building in houses from every era. The oldest ones are, of course, long gone!

Furts

Davesnave wrote: »

My 1930s house had 20cm of foundations, so the extension I added with 1metre of the same probably helped to hold it up!

Nevertheless, the bricks used below DPC were wrong, so they were crumbling, meaning the whole of the outer skin was in danger of major failure. None of this could be picked-up by a survey.

I'm glad my retirement isn't being spent in that house.

I think one could find plenty of examples of Jerry-building in houses from every era. The oldest ones are, of course, long gone!

Countless people are rose tinted spectacle wearers regarding 1930s houses, This was an era of a huge building boom and suburbs were being built. There were so many concerns on design and workmanship that Planning, Buildings Regulations and the NHBC all emanate from this time. All were a collective approach to rein in an out of control industry.

phil24_7

Furts wrote: »

In some ways this is not surprising. When one looks at a car made today it is likely the paint thickness, the corrosion protection and the all round durability is inferior to cars made 20 years ago. Houses are no different.

This depends on the manufacturer...much like the building trade. Many manufacturers use galvanised panels which means they don't rust, even if they chip.

On the whole though, you are correct. Everything these days is built to a price point so savings are inevitably made somewhere, paint thickness is not likely to be noticed by anyone in the first few years of car ownership, not are cheaper metals and parts, I suspect it is the same with modern housing!

Furts

SuzieSue wrote: »

Well, my husband always complains that the house is cold (it is a small 3 bed detached). But we don't get any mould on the walls even though I dry all my washing indoors. I would have thought that if it was badly insulated we would get damp spots on the walls.

It does not work like that with the Barratt Homes I am referring to. To picture what occurred imagine the inside wall of your cavity wall being built half way to full height. The bricklayers would then drape a layer of bubble wrap around the walls. This would not fit snug, it would crumple around corners and would not be sealed and glued in place. They would then build the brickwork for the outer leaf of the wall.

This meant the bubble wrap was so well ventilated that any moisture could get through the inner leaf of the cavity wall and dissipate into the cavity. Hey presto...no damp/condensation spots but also no effective insulation!

However, consumers still purchased the homes by the thousands!

martinsurrey

Furts wrote: »

Countless people are rose tinted spectacle wearers regarding 1930s houses, This was an era of a huge building boom and suburbs were being built. There were so many concerns on design and workmanship that Planning, Buildings Regulations and the NHBC all emanate from this time. All were a collective approach to rein in an out of control industry.

and all the rubbish 1930's houses (and there were millions, have fallen down/been torn down by now.)

my 1880's house is still standing by the grace of god and fortunate ground conditions, the 10 inch foundations aren't really doing much, the ones like mine build on softer ground have already subsided away!