Claim from a Car Park Management firm

safarmuk

Hi All, I am new here and I read the "newbie" thread and decided my question was sufficiently different to warrant a new thread - hope I am not wrong but apologies if I am.


Bit of background, I own a leasehold flat (for 16 years) and have a very clear lease with the freeholder that says I have an exclusive right to use an allocated bay and rights to park in the visitors bay on a "first come first served basis" ... however in their wisdom and without warning the Management Company have decided to implement parking restrictions and entered into a contract with a Car Park Management firm ...


When I queried whether this was even valid this is the response I got back from the Car Park Management firm (removed names to protect the parties for now as it is still on going)


"I have been forwarded your email address from XYZ for the sole purpose of helping you clear up any problems or issues that you may have with the current Parking Management Scheme that is operating in your location.

The main issue appears to be your concern regarding the fact you are entering a contract whilst parked on the land. The enforcement operates using contractual law. We have been instructed by <Management Company> to implement a parking management scheme and they have also signed an authorisation form allowing us to do so.

Our signs being present and clearly visible in and around the parking area are the equivalent of a contract. They act in exactly the same way as a mobile phone contract. However, instead of ‘signing’ the contract – like you would with a mobile phone – the driver of the vehicle has the responsibility of reading and understanding what is written on those signs. Then by turning off the ignition and stepping out of the vehicle they have agreed to that contract. That is the same as them ‘signing’ the contract."


Thoughts please? Seems completely ludicrous to me.
I am the leaseholder and my contract is with the Land Owner. Its clear I, any tenants or any visitors I authorise, have have a right to park on the land (irrespective of whether they have a sticker in a window or not) and in doing so I do not breach a contract (quite the opposite) or cause the Land Owner any financial loss ...

Fruitcake

It is a load of cobblers.

A third party cannot add on something to an existing contract with the landowner.

The Parking-Prankster has posted this on his blogsite where a judge basically said the same thing. Your lease or contract with the landowner takes precedent over anything a management company or their capitalist running dogs say.

Unfortunately the parking company will ignore anything and everything you say because they just want your money. It is possible that the management agency get a payout from the parking company as well so they won't care either.

All you can do is complain to the landowner, and fight each and every parking ticket you may get. You could demand your vehicle is put on a whitelist so you don't get any tickets, or you could robustly tell the MA and PPC that you withdraw any implied right of access to the parking space you lease, and your car, and prohibit the PPC from operating a profit making business on land that you rent and thus are acting as landholder.

Don't hold you breath that any of this will work.

Fruitcake

Aha, a new post yesterday on the Prankster's blogspot entitled Residential Parking covers exactly your situation, and mentions several court cases where judges had decided in favour of the leaseholder. These cases now may be persuasive to other judges in similar cases, so should be quoted in appeals to PPCs, independent appeal processes, and court cases where relevant.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

You should quote this to the MA and also politely ask your landlord what they think about this unlawful situation.

Redx

as above , this prankster blog from yesterday explains it

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

and judges are upholding the rights of leaseholders at the moment , in various court cases , so read some of his other blogs too

The_Deep

Is there a Residents' Association? If so call an EGM to discuss this with the other leaseholders. The MA appears to be trying to diminish your leasehold rights to "quiet enjoyment", possibly a criminal offence under the Landlord and Tenants Acts.


The courts are cracking dowmn on PPCs who try to harass occupiers, read these,


http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**


http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/search?updated-min=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2017-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50


http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/2016/11/test-cases-scheduled-for-overstone.html


http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/2016/11/ukpc-hit-for-352-for-discontinuing.html


http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com.es/2016/11/tenancy-agreement-not-overruled-by.html


http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066

safarmuk

Thanks for getting back to me and apologies I didn't see the similar thread.
I agree with you, I am currently complaining to the Land Owner and will be talking to a solicitor about it as well in due course to see if any of the following has occurred (breach of lease, harassment, trespass etc.). Thoughts?


The <Management Company> also stupidly forwarded personal information about me (mobile, email address) to the Car Parking Company by way of trying to "resolve" this on two separate occasions - the second time was after I had warned them - citing Data Protection - not to do so and they had promised in writing they would never do this again (only to then do it).


For me the next step is speaking to the Land Owner, and seeing a solicitor. Ultimately it is private land (there were pre-existing signs up) and the Car Parking Management Company have no contract with the Land Owner. Does anyone have any thoughts on this specific point? My research is inconclusive here


Finally someone else I know has tickets and has been ignoring them, I have warned him he shouldn't do this but he is nevertheless, they don't appear to want to take him to court surprisingly, just letters. Which says a lot.


Ultimately we might buy the share of freehold - that will make it interesting!


Appreciate if anyone has any views on the legal points of this.


The gobsmacking thing is that the Director of the Car Parking Management firm actually sent such a garbage email.

Redx

do the research on DAVEY versus UKPC, that should help you with some of the legal side

also the recent JOPSON versus HOMEGUARD case too , won at the court of appeal

and the LINK and PACE cases

and as I said , check pranksters blogs like the recent OVERSTONE case which is due to be heard early next year

plenty to research on all your questions above , including taking people to court for DPA issues , trespass issues and other issues too

parking pranksters blog yesterday deals with all of this , in great detail , with case numbers

beamerguy

safarmuk wrote: »

The <Management Company> also stupidly forwarded personal information about me (mobile, email address) to the Car Parking Company by way of trying to "resolve" this on two separate occasions - the second time was after I had warned them - citing Data Protection - not to do so and they had promised in writing they would never do this again (only to then do it).

You need to have a serious word with this management company about their breach under the data protection act.
They are not permitted to give away personal info without your express permission in writing.
A real company will have a data controller who will be well aware of this.

At this point, there is no harm to tell us who the parking company is, all of the scammers have a track record so we can advise on a particular one.

Going to a solicitor will cost money and frankly most good solicitors will have a lack of understanding when it it comes to scams

The links in the above posts are better than seeing a solicitor and there are some brilliant people on here available to help for free

Take this management company to task. There are huge penalties for breaching the data protection act

Right now, you have the whip hand .... GET WHIPPING

Fruitcake

The Parking-Prankster may be interested in your case. He is very busy so don't expect an instant reply, but he may be able to suggest people with legal knowledge who may might want to guide you.

He posts on this site so you can send him a PM, or you can contact him via his blogspot.

I wouldn't suggest using a solicitor as generally they have no idea about parking law, and will charge you for the privilege. It is of course your decision, but you will get the best advice available on the internet here, for free.

Coupon-mad

Several defences are already written on here recently, using the Jopson case and the others mentioned in the Prankster's Blog:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

You can copy from those and show us your draft. We have so much ammo for these cases now.

Have you acknowledged the claim and have you read the NEWBIES thread section 'Small Claim?'

Umkomaas

@OP - are you at a stage where the parking company have issued court papers, or are you just being hit by letters from them (Notice to Keeper)?

If the former you need to defend this and act as per Coupon-mad's post immediately prior to this one.

If the latter, you should be dealing with this via initial appeal. Advice beyond that point will depend on who the parking company is. That information is extremely important in guiding you correctly.