Money taken from O2 account by Microsoft - Fraud

Tothepoint.

foogirl wrote: »

But taking out a contract for children is entirely normal. Thousands of parents do it. To be sure you are safeguarding, you have to be fully informed of all the facts. My point is, even the savviest of folks might not realise this particular thing was possible. She accepts her son did the wrong thing, but he did not do it with the intention of letting his friend buy all those games. Not all 11 year old boys are feral brats who scam their parents. He's in trouble for sure tonight, but naivety is not uncommon for young children. And horrible that at 11 he has to learn his friends cannot be trusted.

I've had a mobile phone for 20 years. Until very recently, the only things you could charge to your account were supplier related items. Indeed on their website, O2 call it "a new way to pay for digital content" so this particular service has not been around for a very long time. EE launched it two years ago. I went back and looked over all the stuff we signed up to with EE three years ago and this was not mentioned. Neither have we been advised since then that this facility is on our account. I called them today and they claimed we could not turn it off. So, if we were to want to add a child's phone to our shared plan, we could not stop them doing this.

It also occurs to me that it would be very easy for someone to take advantage of an elderly or vulnerable relative with this.

Sure, it's always someone else's fault, but sometimes it actually is. Could she really have foreseen that one of her son's friend's would do something like this?

Why do you think children can't have their own contract?

I think both sets of parents need to accept some responsibility.

powerful_Rogue

foogirl wrote: »

But taking out a contract for children is entirely normal. Thousands of parents do it. To be sure you are safeguarding, you have to be fully informed of all the facts. My point is, even the savviest of folks might not realise this particular thing was possible. She accepts her son did the wrong thing, but he did not do it with the intention of letting his friend buy all those games. Not all 11 year old boys are feral brats who scam their parents. He's in trouble for sure tonight, but naivety is not uncommon for young children. And horrible that at 11 he has to learn his friends cannot be trusted.

I've had a mobile phone for 20 years. Until very recently, the only things you could charge to your account were supplier related items. Indeed on their website, O2 call it "a new way to pay for digital content" so this particular service has not been around for a very long time. EE launched it two years ago. I went back and looked over all the stuff we signed up to with EE three years ago and this was not mentioned. Neither have we been advised since then that this facility is on our account. I called them today and they claimed we could not turn it off. So, if we were to want to add a child's phone to our shared plan, we could not stop them doing this.

It also occurs to me that it would be very easy for someone to take advantage of an elderly or vulnerable relative with this.

Sure, it's always someone else's fault, but sometimes it actually is. Could she really have foreseen that one of her son's friend's would do something like this?

Pay as You Go is there for a reason. The very reason as already pointed out as to why people under 18 cannot get a contract in their own name.

There's a variety of PAYG sim deals available, which can be automatically topped up each month. Maybe that would be the more responsible option for the parent to consider.

unforeseen

Tothepoint. wrote: »

Why do you think children can't have their own contract?

Because UK law says that apart from a few limited instances a person under 18 can not be party to contract. Nothing to do with phone companies rules or what one or their friends might do

[Deleted User]

foogirl wrote: »

Could she really have foreseen that one of her son's friend's would do something like this?

Yes, it's the reason children aren't generally allowed their own credit facilities.

Pay As You Go is the answer, just as others have said.

unholyangel

foogirl wrote: »

But taking out a contract for children is entirely normal. Thousands of parents do it. To be sure you are safeguarding, you have to be fully informed of all the facts. My point is, even the savviest of folks might not realise this particular thing was possible. She accepts her son did the wrong thing, but he did not do it with the intention of letting his friend buy all those games. Not all 11 year old boys are feral brats who scam their parents. He's in trouble for sure tonight, but naivety is not uncommon for young children. And horrible that at 11 he has to learn his friends cannot be trusted.

I've had a mobile phone for 20 years. Until very recently, the only things you could charge to your account were supplier related items. Indeed on their website, O2 call it "a new way to pay for digital content" so this particular service has not been around for a very long time. EE launched it two years ago. I went back and looked over all the stuff we signed up to with EE three years ago and this was not mentioned. Neither have we been advised since then that this facility is on our account. I called them today and they claimed we could not turn it off. So, if we were to want to add a child's phone to our shared plan, we could not stop them doing this.

It also occurs to me that it would be very easy for someone to take advantage of an elderly or vulnerable relative with this.

Sure, it's always someone else's fault, but sometimes it actually is. Could she really have foreseen that one of her son's friend's would do something like this?

Exactly - which is why its a bad idea to give kids access to a contract phone unless you can cap the bill (and therefore your liability!). I wasn't even placing any blame on your friends son tbh He trusted the wrong person, thats all. But had his friend not taken advantage, the son could still have run up a huge bill - all because your friend didn't take enough precautions by ensuring a cap was placed on any bills he could run up.

I've been using phones since before they were popular, before sms existed, before price plans existed and when sim cards were the same size as a credit/debit card. And as I said, the facility to pay using your phone is not a new thing, it has been around a loooong time - definitely more than a decade. Maybe O2 and EE are providing it directly themselves now but its been a longstanding feature. Sometimes the merchant would take payment direct that way and others you'd have to use a third party provider (similar to skrill, paypal etc) who would then pass your payment on to the merchant.

As I said, dont mean to sound harsh but it is what it is. If it makes you feel better, I ran up a £300 bill when I was 8 or 9 ish. No ones perfect, we all make mistakes.

foogirl

Of course, I forgot forums were the land of perfect parenting. Personally I think parents, whilst always responsible, can't do everything. Simply blaming them for everything absolves companies for their failings also.

powerful_Rogue

foogirl wrote: »

Of course, I forgot forums were the land of perfect parenting. Personally I think parents, whilst always responsible, can't do everything. Simply blaming them for everything absolves companies for their failings also.

How have to company failed in this situation though?

An adult took out a contract and gave the mobile phone to a child. Costs have been run up which the person that took the contract out are liable to pay. Would you take out a credit card and then give that to your 11 year old child?

[Deleted User]

foogirl wrote: »

Of course, I forgot forums were the land of perfect parenting.

It's nothing to do with "perfect parenting", it's simply wise money management.

This is a site devoted to money saving.

Cancel the expensive (and unsafe) contracts and issue your children with a Pay As You Go 'phone. You can choose to top these up with as little or as much as you like, but that money is all you'll ever risk losing.

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

How have to company failed in this situation though?

Clearly they haven't.

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Would you take out a credit card and then give that to your 11 year old child?

Exactly.