LBA Received - Civil Enforcement LTD - Please Help!

PCNPFA

Hi all (as you can tell... Newbie here)

I've received correspondence via white mail containing a letter before action based on an alleged incident at a local car park.

Before I go into the finer details it's worth noting that I've made every effort to reading the Newbie guide and have looked into other Civil Enforcement Threads before posting... Although these do not necessarily relate to my own circumstance they've been helpful all the same!

To my knowledge I've not received any notification of infringement into parking contravention, having received this letter today I've been back to the site mentioned to check for usual's (signage, ANPR) I've noted that at the time of my most recent visit the signage wasn't properly visible. I've taken images of this for reference should this be required.

The LBA references the vehicle registration, PCN Ref, date of incident and site details.
I've an outstanding debt of £140.00 *I assume this includes disproportionate costs due to the quality of Draft POC provided*

The car park site deters any contravention by advising those using the private land that any infringement would result in a £100 PCN (or £85 if received within 14 days. This would be further discounted by contacting the payment line before exit of car park)

Included within the copy of this LBA is a summary of SCJ between Parking Eye LTD v Beevis (intended for use in support of claimant)

Based on the 'agreement' the claimant believes I've entered into I'm being pursued for costs based on overstaying the 2hour FOC period by 30 minutes (based on this information) I personally believe that a charge of this magnitude is disproportionate to any costs incurred by the company pursuing costs (Draft LBA without particulars).

I've read a few other threads, as mentioned above on other experiences which have been of use! Have noted a couple of points about CEL from reading forum posts (operating under different holding names like parkstar etc) and that they're unable to hold drivers liable due to breach of some agreements.

With the above said I've looked into this via the BPA website and have found they're an accredited member, would this change my next steps at all?

I'd like to know as this has progressed to LBA state whether there are any grounds for appeal as stated in the NEWBIE thread or, as I've not received this whether I would have to initiate any other form of appeal?

See:
forums. moneysavingexpert.com/ showthread.php?t=4816822
forums. moneysavingexpert.com/ showthread.php?p=69694547&posted=1#post69694547
What do I do if I get a ticket?
parkingcowboys.co. /civil-enforcement
If you get a Civil Enforcement Parking Charge Notice, the easiest way to defeat it is by an appeal to POPLA, the independent appeals service for the BPA’s Approved Operator Scheme. Before October 2012, when the Protection of Freedoms Act was introduced, the typical advice was to ignore private parking tickets. However, that is no longer recommended since certain parking companies now try to enforce tickets through the county court. Instead there are arguments to use in your independent appeal that will give you a good chance of getting the ticket cancelled. Have a look at the following pages for information on how to appeal your Civil Enforcement ticket:

Appeals overview
Should I appeal or ignore?
How to win your POPLA appeal
Countering the Beavis argument

NB: Having read this thread I'm unsure of whether I should have even started this, forgive any ignorance, I've come home to this blasted thing after a 14hour shift at work

I guess, coming the long way round, I'd like advice on what to do as I've never received anything of this nature. I've not had a parking fine, points on lisence or any related motoring expensive aside from paying road tax, insurance and repairs! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Who would I respond to and how? Letter says " Pay up or we'll take you to court, you can call us to pay but you can't appeal because we won't let you.."

Other points to consider:
At this stage I'm unsure as to whether the company own this land or whether it's being leased by them

As noted above, personally I believe signage is unclear, as I've not looked into agreements between the BPA and CEL I don't know whether the language used meets with their requirements?

LBA documentation and supporting information (including Draft PoC) has not been signed and it not even named *is this standard practice/acceptable?*

It's too late for this so half of my post will likely not make sense.
Kind regards

PCNPFA

** I've removed parts of links so that I'm able to post (not a scammer, honest!)

Coupon-mad

Easiest for you is to read a thread like yours with answers & links already provided:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5543834

Now, be aware that CEL cannot hold registered keepers liable! They do not use the right wording in their Notice to Keeper (postal PCNs) because they don't send them in time to meet that statute.

Hence, you respond and defend as keeper. For obvious reasons of winning...Not telling them who was driving.

Expect a claim form but expect to win or see it off with NO hearing (honestly, that's the usual and we've never lost one v CEL nor seen one go to a hearing when defended well).

Here's a defence shown and advice for if you get a claim (please don't just pay):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5549810

HTH, keep us informed!

PCNPFA

An update of sorts...

I've just come in from a long shift in the office (who doesn't love that on a Thursday) to find a letter on the doormat, almost camouflaged into the floor...

Looking intrigued, hoping for a tax rebate I wasted no time in opening these, to my surprise I've received not only the one letter, two... TWO

*To clarify I've received the original letter for the PCN (as described above), what's even more intruiging is that they seem to have been bundled together with two other fines for people that live in other parts of the United Kingdom. Now I don't want to be hasty but I'm almost certain that this is a breach of DPA, considering they've released sensitive data that they've requested from the DVLA into, what could potentially, be the wrong hands?

In a seperate letter is another PCN notice for the same car park, a couple of months apart with the PCN issue date of 22/11/2016.

My questions:

Would I be able to quash both at the same time by informing the appropriate authorities of this data breach?

Should I contact CEL directly to contest the second claim? I'd contest the charge on the grounds that there is no clear signage in the car-park, viewable at night. And any signage would not be relevant due to the terminology held therein?

It seems overly co-incidental that two letters would appear at one time, although they're two months apart, more so taking into account the LBA which arrived yesterday?


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I'd be interested to see whether the occupants of the other two vehicles that I've received information for via this letter have received the same LBA
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Thanks for the link to the other thread! I'll have a look through that, I've seen some defences that were drafted when this got progressed to a latter stage, I was just wondering whether I'd go about this any differently considering I've only just received the LBA...

Do I acknowledge this LBA and contact CEL to complain/contest/appeal or do I sit patiently and strap myself in for a ride?

As always, any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

PCNPFA

Just had a look on the Pepipoo forums, would I be able to send this as a response to the LBA, shown below?

Dear Sir

Ref : xxx

I have received your Letter Before Claim dated XXth XXXXXXX 2016.

I deny any debt to Civil Enforcement Ltd

The driver is not identified in your letter and your client has failed to meet the requirements of The Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue me as keeper.

You also cannot presume that I possess all the documents referred to in your letter.
Please send me copies of all the documents sent by the client including the windscreen notice if one was attached to the vehicle.

When these are supplied, please also confirm whether the intended action is founded on a contractual charge, a breach of a contract or trespass.
Please confirm that your client's contract with the land-holder includes specific authority to take legal action and that this will be produced for the court.

When I receive the documents and your explanations I will be in a position to make a more detailed response
It would be unreasonable to proceed with litigation before you have clarified your client's cause of action.

I look forward to your response

Yours Faithfully

Coupon-mad

Yes that looks fine, but expect a claim to defend and win anyway!

I'd be interested to see whether the occupants of the other two vehicles that I've received information for via this letter have received the same LBA

I would be keeping copies (to show your Judge if a hearing ever happens, looks bad on them) and complaining to the ICO.