Southeastern Trains Penalty

cat1984

Hi guys,

I'm actually embarrassed I'm having to write this.

I don't travel to London often but when I do I have ALWAYS purchased my ticket on the train as I've always been given the best price/advice (I've been doing this for years).

Today I got on the train and was confronted by 3 transport pooice(?) who asked me for my ticket. I explained that I needed to purchase one from Margate to St Pancras (innocently).

I was then told I would have to pay a fine and my train ticket as I didn't have one.

I explained kindly and calmly that I have been buying my tickets on the train for years and not once have I been told this was wrong and they have always been very helpful.

She didn't care and continued to charge me the full whack whilst patronisingly calling me 'sweetie'.

Now I wouldn't mind if I seemed like I was about to take off or I had been pulled up before, but instead I was made to feel like a criminal.

I just wondered if anyone had appealed before and if so if anyone has any advice?

Thanks.

Owain_Moneysaver

British Transport Police do not collect ticket payments or issue penalty fares. You would have been dealt with by a Southeastern Revenue Protection Officer or other authorised penalty fare collector (see below).

Southeastern penalty fare is £20 or twice the full single fare from the station where the passenger got on the train to the next station at which the train stops, whichever is the greater. Not the fare for the full journey from Margate to London, unless this was a non-stop train.

You can appeal against a penalty fare in writing or online within 21 days of the issue date. Written appeals should be sent to the Independent Penalty Fares Appeals Service (IPFAS) at the address shown on the notice you were given. You can also make your appeal online at https://www.penaltyfares.co.uk

(Note that this isn't actually an "independent" service - IPFAS is a trading name of London & South Eastern Railway Limited, company registration number 0486066)

Southeastern's Penalty Fare Scheme (attachment to here states:

5.3 In the discretion guidelines issued and trained to our staff, they may only consider the issue of a penalty fare notice where positive information has been provided to them personally about the availability of ticket and permit to travel purchasing facilities at the penalty fares station of journey origin and where queuing time standards are not being exceeded. This is done when calling the Revenue Protection Support Service who have access to real time information about the availability and functionality status (i.e. available change etc) of on line ticket vending machines.

Therefore the collector should not have issued a penalty if they did not make a personal enquiry at the time to RPSS to establish the ticket office was open.

8.1 Authorised collectors will wear a distinctive uniform that clearly shows that they work for us. Revenue Protection Officers will wear a hat to distinguish themselves from other Southeastern employees. Other authorised collectors, in line with rule 5, will carry identification and produce it when charging a penalty fare or when asked by a passenger. This identification will include the authorised collector’s photograph and will show that they are authorised to collect penalty fares on our behalf and on behalf of any other operators who have authorised them to collect penalty fares. We will not allow authorised collectors to collect penalty fares if they do not have this badge with them.

If the collector was not a Revenue Officer and did not show you his badge he is not allowed to collect a penalty fare.

12.1 All appeals against a penalty fare charged under this scheme will be handled by the Independent Penalty Fares Appeal Service (IPFAS). In line with the Penalty Fares Rules, every passenger charged a penalty fare under this cheme will be made aware of their right to appeal. IPFAS’ address will be shown on the penalty fare notice, together with details of how to make an appeal.

If you were not given the correct notice or it did not have the correct information, the notice was not issued in accordance with the Penalty Fares Scheme lodged with the DfT.

Owain_Moneysaver

Southeastern also appear to fail to say on their website station information that Margate is in a Penalty Fare area. That may be a further breach of the Penalty Fare Scheme.

cat1984

Thank you Owain.

This is extremely useful information. I also noticed that Margate wasn't on their site as a 'penalty area'.

I got on at Margate and the train was not non stop.
The next station would have been birchington on sea.

I really did feel victimised by them if I'm honest and felt I was tackled as an easy target.

I wouldn't mind, but getting rid of all their staff on the platforms does not make me (a young women) want to hang around on her own waiting for a ticket man to provide her with a ticket!

giraffe69

cat1984 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind, but getting rid of all their staff on the platforms does not make me (a young women) want to hang around on her own waiting for a ticket man to provide her with a ticket!

Why do you have to? If you know when you are travelling you can buy online and pick up from a machine or have the tickets posted to you. If you are are buying on the day then use the machine.

Its hardly news that you need a valid ticket to travel unless perhaps the ticket office is closed and the machines out of order.

elverson

Did you get any paperwork apart from the ticket?

How much money did you hand over in total and what was the price of the ticket?

cat1984

giraffe69 wrote: »

Why do you have to? If you know when you are travelling you can buy online and pick up from a machine or have the tickets posted to you. If you are are buying on the day then use the machine.

Its hardly news that you need a valid ticket to travel unless perhaps the ticket office is closed and the machines out of order.

I'm not here to argue about why I didn't buy a ticket online.

cat1984

elverson wrote: »

Did you get any paperwork apart from the ticket?

How much money did you hand over in total and what was the price of the ticket?

Yes I did. I was given a receipt and paper receipt.

I paid he whole total which was £82.

martindow

cat1984 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind, but getting rid of all their staff on the platforms does not make me (a young women) want to hang around on her own waiting for a ticket man to provide her with a ticket!

You are expected to have a ticket before you get on a train, unless it is a very small station with no machines or the machines are out of order.

Even young women need to buy tickets at the station, I'm afraid.

Browntoa

cat1984 wrote: »

I'm not here to argue about why I didn't buy a ticket online.

I always buy mine online from the southeastern web site , it always shows the cheapest and best options so not sure why you need to chance it by not buying at the station ticket office or platform machines .

cat1984

Thank you to those who replied answering my question.

To those who couldn't help themselves but make a comment on why I didn't buy the ticket online or by the ticket machine, thanks for reminding me why I don't use forums like this for help.

"Rules" haven't applied down here in Margate for many years, therefore many people buy their ticket on the train as this is what they've always done and the service is available.

I didn't ask for someone to read me the riot act, I asked for advice on getting money back for a fine I received as a genuine ticket payer who as just following the same old line of paying for a ticket in the same way she has for the last 2 years.

I have never had this happened before and quite frankly felt like I was an easy target. I didn't have to be given that fine, she chose to because maybe she'd had a !!!! day and needed to take it out on someone.

I didn't once say I was in the right, I know the rules but until NOW these haven't applied to our small towns.

Southeastern workers happily supply tickets on trains and not once have I been told this is the wrong method.

Those of you who couldn't help yourself but repeat what was already obvious, I hope your comments make you feel better or have improved your day in some way.

They certaintly weren't helpful from my point of view and quite frankly were a waste of your time writing it and my time reading it.

When will you typical negative over opinionated people with too much to say stop.

Quite frankly it's exhausting reading such pointless gumpf!

I hope you have a great day afternoon!