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Been selected for jury service, (!!!!!!!!)
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I was fortunate and was released on full pay from work no issues, they have a big thing about supporting our communities.
I found it fascinating and can think of no better way to conduct a trial, it really is up to the prosecution to prove guilt.
12 random people in a room hearing the evidence, we picked everything to pieces and at the end we were pretty split to begin with, I was surprised that the "teachers/social workers" on the jury were of the string em up persuasion.
During some downtime I went into the "plead court" to watch the regulars swearing at the magistrate. Also being told by the bailiff on the first day to please not bring knives and weapons with us into court- makes you realise how many nutters are out there.
A great experience and I believe the only duty expected of you as a citizen. I look forward to doing it again, and if ever you find yourself in the dock, don't wear attire from JD Sports, not a good start.0 -
steampowered wrote: »I doubt there are many self-employed people earning more than £64.95 per day, who would lose their house if they lost the difference between that and what they are actually earning for a few weeks. If their financial position is that bad they are pretty much bankrupt anyway.
That's very short sighted. I know self-employed brick-layers who are on nearly £400 a day in Cardiff. Two weeks of jury service would see them out of pocket by £3,350. Civic duty or not, I don't think there are many people who could stomach losing that amount of money.
My OH had jury duty this year. He had to turn down a new contract which was due to start the same week in order to do it and, because he was "between contracts" they classed him as unemployed. He was paid NOTHING for his service. They refunded his bus fare (they will not pay mileage or parking, only public transport costs) and gave him £6.25 in lunch vouchers. Now we are by no means on the breadline and were never in danger of not paying the mortgage, but we certainly felt the impact of those two weeks. If he had being chosen for a longer case, we would certainly have started to struggle and would have had to dip into savings.0 -
steampowered wrote: »For employed people, employers are legally required to give time off to attend jury service. Employers know this.
Yes, they must allow time off, but they are NOT required to pay them. I have worked for both small and large organisations and none of them have ever paid salaries to those on jury service.
My last employer (400+ staff) had 25 of it's staff called for jury duty in just one year, including two of the Directors. It was extraordinary. There was no way they would have paid everyone. I was one of those called and applied to be allowed not to because I wasn't in a financial position to afford to not be paid.0 -
MockTurtle wrote: »My OH had jury duty this year. He had to turn down a new contract which was due to start the same week in order to do it .
I had a driver that started with us to do a specific year long contract and shortly after starting, was called up to do Jury Service. We are very specialist hauliers, takes around 3 months for a driver to get fully qualified for our work. The driver wrote and explained the background to his request for deferment and it was no problem.
I would have thought your OH would have been able to do something similar.0 -
Yes, but forcing people to serve against their will isn't exactly ideal either. All you need is a majority of them on a jury and they are looking for the quickest way to bring the case to an end, not justice.
I haven't yet been summoned for jury service but everyone I know who has said they were shocked by how prejudice people were. People deciding if someone was guilty based on the colour of their skin, how attractive they were, how they dressed, etc. Is this really a good idea?steampowered wrote: »Good question.
For employed people, employers are legally required to give time off to attend jury service. Employers know this.
For self-employed people, you can claim £64.95 a day for short trials, up to £228.06 a day for very long trials, plus expenses.
I doubt there are many self-employed people earning more than £64.95 per day, who would lose their house if they lost the difference between that and what they are actually earning for a few weeks. If their financial position is that bad they are pretty much bankrupt anyway.
If someone would genuinely be put into serious financial difficulty as a result of jury service, fine, they can apply for an exemption - not just fail to turn up.
Losing your house is admittedly a bit of an extreme example and unlikely to happen.
I'll give you a more real world situation. I know self employed private contractors who earn £1k a day. If they're away for 2 weeks that's £20k less the tiny contribution they'll be out of pocket by. There is also the possibility given the urgency of their position they'll lose the contract by attending. I know some will say they can afford it but losing nearly £20k in salary, plus however long it takes you to find a new contract is a lot for anyone to take. That's assuming the case doesn't drag on.
That's ignoring the possible mental affects of the case as well. You could always get a fairly standard easy case but it could also be harrowing. I know someone who was placed on a case of a child that was raped. It's totally understandable how this could affect those on the case. Is this really a fair thing to do to the general public?I have always worried actually about being called for Jury service on account of the fact that I fall asleep at the drop of a hat - seriously.
Red bull?0 -
I had a driver that started with us to do a specific year long contract and shortly after starting, was called up to do Jury Service. We are very specialist hauliers, takes around 3 months for a driver to get fully qualified for our work. The driver wrote and explained the background to his request for deferment and it was no problem.
I would have thought your OH would have been able to do something similar.
He would have normally, but he had already deferred from 8 months previous and so couldn't defer again.0 -
Red bull?LOL I'd be there twitching away, high on caffeine!
MockTurtle wrote: »He would have normally, but he had already deferred from 8 months previous and so couldn't defer again.
Ah, yes in which case, that is a pain.0 -
This is a different situation. The person in that story attended a trial and then failed to turn up on the last day. This could potentially require the trial to be reheard at huge expense and effort. I'm not at all surprised he was jailed for this.
However not turning up at all doesn't disrupt a trial. There are plenty of other people to pick from. If you can show me where anyone has been jailed or even given a criminal record for not showing up at all then I'm all ears.
Ok I'll ask the both of you this. How much would you be willing to lose before you decided the money was more important and you wouldn't attend? Would you be willing to lose your house and your job to sit on a jury? This is a possibility for someone who is self employed or someone who's employer won't pay their wages.
Long trials aren't unheard of either. One of my colleagues was off on jury service for 6 weeks.
Personally I'd go but I work for a company who would continue to pay my salary. In fact I think I'd actually quite enjoy it. However if I was self employed I wouldn't bother. I wouldn't affect my life just to uphold my public duty.
No I would not want to lose my job or house. However, surely the fact that this might be likely would be a good reason for the court to excuse your service?
I have a friend who has been called three times, and excused three times. Once she was very pregnant, the second time she was breastfeeding and the third time she was going into hospital.
I think there are valid reasons to be excused. However, 'don't want to' or 'can't be bothered' are not, imho, valid reasons.
I have never been called. My son has, and was unemployed at the time. A new law had just come in to say that people unemployed COULD still sign on whilst doing Jury Service, so he didn't lose any money. He found it extremely interesting.(AKA HRH_MUngo)
Member #10 of £2 savers club
Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton0 -
You can request a deferral. I was once selected but it was just as I had returned to work after maternity leave so my employer said that they were happy to confirm that for business reasons it would be impractical (can't remember the exact wording behind it, but it was along those lines). I completed the form saying this and it was deferred with no question, I then got selected again around a year later and loved it.0
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seven-day-weekend wrote: »I think there are valid reasons to be excused. However, 'don't want to' or 'can't be bothered' are not, imho, valid reasons.
I totally agree. However I think being £20k out of pocket (as per my example) is a valid reason but unless I'm mistaken the courts don't accept this excuse.0
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