Intergenerational Land Dispute - It's About What Is Right.

AndyBlue1975

Hello.

I do not think i have posted on here before, and if i have it must be many moons ago.
So please be gentle.

I have a long story to tell before i get to the point, so pull up a pew, grab a brew and a biccie, and make yourself comfortable.

My Grandad, on my Dad's side, was a mechanic.
He had his own plot of land and garage, whilst happily tinkering with cars and making some money to feed his family.
When he passed away there was years and years of disoutes over the land.
My Dad could never do right by him, and his brothers, who never did anything for their Dad, were always seen in a favourable light.
My Dad was no angel, but that is another story.
There was no will left and it was assumed, i gather that my Nana would have inherited everything.
I have vague memories of her as i was always young. I remember her living in a run down flat, and scratching around for money, so i guess she didn't end up with much.
Therefore a dispute erupted between my Dads 'holier than though' brothers and him.
Neville went to London and didn't want to know, so it was just down to him and Graeme.
Suddenly, the deeds of the land went missing, which my Dad did not believe.
Over the many years that followed, my Dad got himself into a bit of bother repeatedly for sabotage.
There would be wooden markers and rope appearing on the land, indicating plans to build, whilst at night my Dad would make them disappear.
He would pour sugar into the fuel tank of any machinery that was placed on the land.
After a while i think he gave up as it was all too much.
Now i know that there are 4 town houses on that plot of land.

When i think of how my Dad scratched and scraped his way through life to keep our electric on, whilst his brother lived in the lap of luxury, it makes my blood boil.
It is also about what is right.
His own brother couldn't even come to his funeral over a decade ago, as he had booked a hot holiday.
Needless to say that Graeme had children, and they have all silver spoons in their orifices, and no doubt the cycle will continue when they have children.

When all this started i wasn't even born, and i vaguely remember my Nana, who passed when i was very young.
Now i am a 41 year old man, with a family of my own, and the up's and down's that happen in life.

It recently come to mind about this event, and i am all about justice and what is right, and what is wrong.

I am a full time carer of my disable partner and my elderly mum, so there is no way on earth i could afford a solicitor to get involved.
I am quite an intelligent man so i am trying, when i have time, to see if there is a way to deal with this matter myself.

In a best case scenario where hypothetically, justice is served, what would i do?
I would split anything with my brother, (even though we do not speak), and put money away for my children's future.

In a worse case scenario, if i did not get anywhere, then i would deal with that, comforted by the knowledge that at least i tried.
Also, it would be one less thought that would keep me awake at night.

Families eh?!

Any advice is duly welcome.

Thanks for reading this and thanks for your time and assistance.

keithdc

AndyBlue1975 wrote: »

Hello.

I do not think i have posted on here before, and if i have it must be many moons ago.
So please be gentle.

I have a long story to tell before i get to the point, so pull up a pew, grab a brew and a biccie, and make yourself comfortable.

My Grandad, on my Dad's side, was a mechanic.
He had his own plot of land and garage, whilst happily tinkering with cars and making some money to feed his family.
When he passed away there was years and years of disoutes over the land.
My Dad could never do right by him, and his brothers, who never did anything for their Dad, were always seen in a favourable light.
My Dad was no angel, but that is another story.
There was no will left and it was assumed, i gather that my Nana would have inherited everything.
I have vague memories of her as i was always young. I remember her living in a run down flat, and scratching around for money, so i guess she didn't end up with much.
Therefore a dispute erupted between my Dads 'holier than though' brothers and him.
Neville went to London and didn't want to know, so it was just down to him and Graeme.
Suddenly, the deeds of the land went missing, which my Dad did not believe.
Over the many years that followed, my Dad got himself into a bit of bother repeatedly for sabotage.
There would be wooden markers and rope appearing on the land, indicating plans to build, whilst at night my Dad would make them disappear.
He would pour sugar into the fuel tank of any machinery that was placed on the land.
After a while i think he gave up as it was all too much.
Now i know that there are 4 town houses on that plot of land.

When i think of how my Dad scratched and scraped his way through life to keep our electric on, whilst his brother lived in the lap of luxury, it makes my blood boil.
It is also about what is right.
His own brother couldn't even come to his funeral over a decade ago, as he had booked a hot holiday.
Needless to say that Graeme had children, and they have all silver spoons in their orifices, and no doubt the cycle will continue when they have children.

When all this started i wasn't even born, and i vaguely remember my Nana, who passed when i was very young.
Now i am a 41 year old man, with a family of my own, and the up's and down's that happen in life.

It recently come to mind about this event, and i am all about justice and what is right, and what is wrong.

I am a full time carer of my disable partner and my elderly mum, so there is no way on earth i could afford a solicitor to get involved.
I am quite an intelligent man so i am trying, when i have time, to see if there is a way to deal with this matter myself.

In a best case scenario where hypothetically, justice is served, what would i do?
I would split anything with my brother, (even though we do not speak), and put money away for my children's future.

In a worse case scenario, if i did not get anywhere, then i would deal with that, comforted by the knowledge that at least i tried.
Also, it would be one less thought that would keep me awake at night.

Families eh?!

Any advice is duly welcome.

Thanks for reading this and thanks for your time and assistance.

What is 'right' is subjective.

What is legal is relevant and I'm unclear what your argument is.

what did your grandfather's / grandmother's will say? ( Although any claim is almost inevitably out of time anyway).

meer53

If houses have been built on the land, it must have been sold. Only the title deed owner could sell the land so i can't imagine you having any success with any claim now. Maybe a quick search on the Land Registry will give some information but whether it will give you peace of mind is doubtful if you find your brother was the person who sold it.

rpc

If there were no wills and the land was never transferred to anyone, then it would probably have ended up being owned in equal shares by all offspring.

If the timing was long enough ago, possession of the deeds and a good story would be enough to sell the land - electronic registration is a relatively recent thing.

After all this time, it would be really quite hard to unwind and almost certainly expensive. Doing it at the time might have been quite feasible, but 40+ years on makes it a lot harder. You can't really knock down the houses and toss out the innocent owners. You would need evidence from a long time ago and you would need a solicitor (and possibly barrister).

The brother could well claim adverse possession anyway, giving him legitimate title to the land.

It might not feel right, but I suggest you leave this one be and move on.

sheramber

When he passed away there was years and years of disoutes over the land.

What was the dispute and what was the outcome?

There was no will left and it was assumed, i gather that my Nana would have inherited everything.

if she did, she could have sold it.

lincroft1710

AndyBlue1975 wrote: »

Any advice is duly welcome.

Just forget about it, the land has long gone out of your family and even if your father was cheated out of his inheritance (and I stress even if as you appear to have no documentation to support this) it would cost far too much to pursue this. If your grandfather's will omitted any bequest to your father, so be it.

You have far more important things in your life - your family and especially the care of your partner and mother. Devote your time and effort to them, you do not need the stress and financial burden of what will no doubt be a fruitless quest.

duchy

There's is no obligation to ensure your children inherit under English law .
Your Dad and grandfather didn't get along clearly so hardly surprising he wasn't left anything .
He reaped what he sowed it seems. May not seem fair but life often isn't.

Diary

If your Dad's mum and dad didn't leave a will or left your dad out of the will, I'm really not sure what you are trying to achieve by going against their wishes. Do you know what you're trying to achieve?

What they did was the right thing for them - it sounds like there might be circumstances and family dynamics you are unaware of.

AndyBlue1975

All good advice. Thank you.
lincroft1710 - You are right. i should devote the time to my family, rather than go on some fruitless quest.
I just have a strong sense of what is right and what is wrong, and it just seems a gross injustice.

FBaby

There is an element of bitterness that the rest of your family are in a much better financial situation than you, but can you really say that it all comes down to that land and if your dad had been entitled to some of it, you would all be well off too?

Family's circumstances are different. You've taken different paths and these paths have taken you different places. There is a history of feud, so likely to be different outlook on life.

It's good to fight for justice, but I get the feeling you feel there is an injustice because of where there are rather than what happened. As it stands, there MIGHT have been an injustice, but weighting likelihoods, all was probably done legally and there are indeed no injustice. Even if your grandfather decided that your dad shouldn't get anything from him, that's not an injustice. No child is entitled to their parents' inheritance. If you make your own money, you have a right to dispose it as you wish.

If you have time, interest, and can look into it without putting too much emotions into it, you have nothing to lose at least taking the first steps, but be prepared to accept that it is most likely to take you nowhere close to getting anything from your uncles and cousins.

paddy's_mum

AndyBlue1975 wrote: »

Over the many years that followed, my Dad got himself into a bit of bother repeatedly for sabotage.

He would pour sugar into the fuel tank of any machinery that was placed on the land.

i am all about justice and what is right, and what is wrong.

In your thoughts about 'natural justice' don't forget to deduct the costs of putting right the damage your father did from the hypothetical figure you feel he should have inherited.

If I remember correctly, sugar in the tank was a hugely damaging thing to do to a vehicle and very expensive to put right - machinery to develop land isn't cheap since you are talking JCB's etc not some clapped out little Ford Anglia costing peanuts to replace.

I suggest that you are looking at this through the wrong end of the telescope, as it were, and that your relatives had very good reason indeed to feel that your father had already had more than his fair share of tolerance, forgiveness, chances, money spent out etc.

My advice? Drop the whole matter and concentrate on those people you care deeply about and who deserve the whole of your abilities. I wish you peace of mind.