Can I be disciplined for discussing promotion with another manager?

takman

ThemeOne wrote: »

I love how in the usual judge and jury manner "speaking informally" with another manager about a possible new role has now become "pestering".

But the OP has spoken to this other manager on multiple occasions about a new role that he knows he can't do because his manager has told him that he is required in his current role. He continues to ask this new manager even though being told repeatably nothing is happening regarding the new role and he has asked so many times that his current manager has had to warn him to stop.

That sounds like pestering to me!

Undervalued

Tornik wrote: »

I'm sure I could be disciplined for disobeying a 'work' instruction. "Securely delete these files, Setup this new user", for example. I absolutely agree with that.

But being disciplined for speaking with someone? About a formal, legitimate transfer? I can't agree that that's acceptable.

The problem is that ultimately you cannot challenge any disciplinary sanction short of dismissal. So, if they hold a disciplinary and impose a warning there is nothing you can do other than appeal internally.

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

The problem is that ultimately you cannot challenge any disciplinary sanction short of dismissal. So, if they hold a disciplinary and impose a warning there is nothing you can do other than appeal internally.

And although a dismissal would be very unlikely, nothing they could do about that either - the OP is "almost two years" not over two years!

And I think they are dicing with fate anyway, for all the reasons already explained. If the employer ( not the managers, the employer) has a vacancy in that department, then they should decide how that vacancy should be filled. There is nothing at all to stop them simply offering a job to someone if that is what they wish to do, and their policies permit that. But this should be clear and transparent. What I suspect happened here is that the "potential manager" made an offer that they can't authorise, and has been slapped down. Managers can't just create posts and offer them willynilly. The manager is too embarassed to admit what had happened to the OP, and so is stringing them along with non-commital answers. And the other managers are therefore being cast as the bad guys because they ARE being open and transparent, but the answer isn't the one the OP wants. After all, when it comes down to it, the dead give away is that someone is telling them that the OP keeps speaking to this other manager about the job. And only two people know about this - the OP and the other manager.

Undervalued

sangie595 wrote: »

And although a dismissal would be very unlikely, nothing they could do about that either - the OP is "almost two years" not over two years!

Well spotted, I missed that bit!

bouicca21

Surely if there is a vacancy, and I'm not at all sure from this thread that there is, the company must create a job spec and person description and then proceed to advertise it. They may decide to advertise it internally only, but just offering a promotion to a single individual is unfair on the other employees, open to allegations of bias, and general all round poor practice.

Undervalued

bouicca21 wrote: »

Surely if there is a vacancy, and I'm not at all sure from this thread that there is, the company must create a job spec and person description and then proceed to advertise it. They may decide to advertise it internally only, but just offering a promotion to a single individual is unfair on the other employees, open to allegations of bias, and general all round poor practice.

It may be all of those things but it is not unlawful.

Nicki

Our code of conduct internally says that for low level misconduct the manager should first speak informally to the employee to warn them their behaviour is unacceptable, then proceed to verbal warning, written warning and ultimately dismissal depending on seriousness of the conduct. It sounds to me like OP is already at stage 1 of that journey and as he has been advised he needs to obey his manager's request otherwise he will get to verbal warning before too long which will impact his promotion prospects for a while.

As to whether this is fair or not, if there is a job in sysadmin at the right level, OP has already made clear to that manager that he would be interested in it. Nagging the manager about it is only going to put him off. Sometimes things take as long as they take. If there isn't a job there, no amount of pleading is going to make there be one.

As for the need to internally advertise, not all companies require this but usually if one team is to poach a member of another team with no internal advertisement both managers have to agree to that. As both OP's line manager and senior manager oppose the move, I'd have thought the only chance of him making the move would be if the role is advertised internally or externally and he applies for it.

In the meantime, OP would be better working on the assumption he isn't going to get the promotion and work on repairing his relationship with his existing management team and/or looking around for other opportunities at the right level.

ohreally

bouicca21 wrote: »

Surely if there is a vacancy, and I'm not at all sure from this thread that there is, the company must create a job spec and person description and then proceed to advertise it. They may decide to advertise it internally only, but just offering a promotion to a single individual is unfair on the other employees, open to allegations of bias, and general all round poor practice.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71633651&postcount=11

SandC

If this was an internally advertised vacant position then this attitude by your boss would not be acceptable, but the fact is that the other Manager should not be putting you in this position. OP you really are going to have to let it go because, as unfair as it may seem, you have been told by your manager not to discuss this. It's an instruction and you need to treat it as you would any other work instruction.

There are often internal politics involved in these situations and these two Managers need to sort this out between them. Just get on with your job as well as you have been and hopefully an official opportunity may come up in the future and you can apply for a promotion/move through the proper channels. I do completely understand your frustration though.