Can I be disciplined for discussing promotion with another manager?

sangie595

Tornik wrote: »

I'm sure I could be disciplined for disobeying a 'work' instruction. "Securely delete these files, Setup this new user", for example. I absolutely agree with that.

But being disciplined for speaking with someone? About a formal, legitimate transfer? I can't agree that that's acceptable.

This is a work instruction. The person who manages you in work has given you a reasonable ( I.e. Not unlawful or illegal) instruction, and you are required to obey it. Full stop. You can raise a grievance if you disagree with it. What you cannot do is ignore it with impunity just because you don't like it. I am seriously warning you, you may not "agree that it is acceptable " - what you think is not relevant. I have told you the correct lawful answer and you ignore it at your own peril.

Whether there is a " legitimate transfer " is a matter for managers to resolve. You have a job, and that is your job. Many employers will never allow managers to "cherry pick" from other teams - it causes bad feeling amongst managers, it isn't sound organisational management, and what about other employees who may wish to be considered for the vacancy - assuming there is a vacancy? Your managers (plural) are opposed to the transfer. If you don't like that.... Submit a grievance.

Doing otherwise is acting wildly unprofessionally. And frankly, whilst it may not be in accordance with your opinions, the potential manager is also acting wildly unprofessionally. Managers do not approach individual staff and attempt to poach them from other managers teams. If they have good cause and can make a coherent argument that conforms with the employers recruitment polices, then they resolve the matter amongst themselves first. And if they can't, they can't. But they do not offer someone a job transfer in the way that this manager has.

Mr.Generous

ok so the other manager, by asking you about the job is effectively giving you an instruction to discuss it. I doubt anyone in HR would back a disciplinary for this, it would be ridiculous. The rule about following instructions is based on the premise of them being reasonable. IE its not illegal to make someone wear a dunce hat and stand in the corner but it would be unreasonable to try and discipline someone for failing to follow that instruction.
The crazy thing is everybody who has been promoted or transferred job has at some point applied for a promotion and advanced their own career. It sounds to me like either they are trying to keep you in your current role or else they are envious about your promotion.
I'd be tempted to start looking at other businesses for your next move if that's what the culture is.

ThemeOne

I wonder what the disciplinary measures might consist of.

paddyrg

Don't get involved, keep shtum. There are things going on at levels your grade isn't privy to, so let them play out. Maybe it's a coup, maybe a takeover, maybe a new project, maybe there are redundancies, maybe retirements, maybe a restructure, just flow with what your manager tells you

takman

Tornik wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.

To clarify, I've been with the company for almost 2 years now, and passed my probation with no issues some time ago.

I work as a 1st and 2nd line helpdesk technician. I was seconded to our sys admin team a few months back, for a month, and the manager there was happy with my work and wanted to offer me a job.

My line manager and his manager (my senior manager) have blocked it at every turn, despite there being no formal reason to do so. The 'receiving' manager is happy with my ability and skills, and there has been no issue with my performance in my current post, quite the opposite in fact.

The only real reason I can see that the move has been blocked is because my current manager doesn't like the new manager, and has decided to use this as an opportunity to play politics. So, I've been sitting in a 1st line post, wasting time and losing skills.

I've spoken with the receiving manager a few times, and he's kept me abreast of what's going on, which has mostly been 'nothing yet'. I spoke with him last week, while my manager was on holiday - unplanned, not pre-arranged. Today, my manager told me that he'd been informed of this, and if it continued, I may be disciplined.

I'll put that bluntly - if I discuss a formal, legitimate transfer with the manager who wants me on his team, I will be disciplined. My manager didn't say what I would be disciplined for, and I was too angry to ask.

So they need you to continue in your current role and your current manager needs you where you are now.

But you continue to go and speak to a manager of another department and ask them for a job there instead of where you are working now. You continue to speak to this other manager even though he tells you nothing is happening regarding you moving.

The second manager may have been the one who told your manager that you keep pestering him for a job and to have a word with you to stop. He is probably fed up with you continuing to ask him for a job even though your needed where you are.

takman

Mr.Generous wrote: »

ok so the other manager, by asking you about the job is effectively giving you an instruction to discuss it. I doubt anyone in HR would back a disciplinary for this, it would be ridiculous. The rule about following instructions is based on the premise of them being reasonable. IE its not illegal to make someone wear a dunce hat and stand in the corner but it would be unreasonable to try and discipline someone for failing to follow that instruction.
The crazy thing is everybody who has been promoted or transferred job has at some point applied for a promotion and advanced their own career. It sounds to me like either they are trying to keep you in your current role or else they are envious about your promotion.
I'd be tempted to start looking at other businesses for your next move if that's what the culture is.

Yeah but he isn't applying for a promotion, there is no job under this new manager. The new manager was just happy with his performance when he covered for someone else for a short period. Since then the OP has been pestering him for a move to his area even though he has been told nothing is happening.

[Deleted User]

Tornik wrote: »

The title says it all, really.

I've just been told by my current manager that if I discuss a possible promotion and transfer with another manager (the manager I would be working under) then I may be disciplined.

I've spoken informally with this other manager a few times now, but now my current manager seems to want to stop it.

This doesn't seem quite right to me - can someone else weigh in? Happy to provide more info if required.

Bearing in mind previous comments, if you really want to speak to the other manager, I suggest that you do it in your own time and off work premises - Presumably it will then be your business and not theirs.

sangie595

Mr.Generous wrote: »

ok so the other manager, by asking you about the job is effectively giving you an instruction to discuss it. I doubt anyone in HR would back a disciplinary for this, it would be ridiculous. The rule about following instructions is based on the premise of them being reasonable. IE its not illegal to make someone wear a dunce hat and stand in the corner but it would be unreasonable to try and discipline someone for failing to follow that instruction.
The crazy thing is everybody who has been promoted or transferred job has at some point applied for a promotion and advanced their own career. It sounds to me like either they are trying to keep you in your current role or else they are envious about your promotion.
I'd be tempted to start looking at other businesses for your next move if that's what the culture is.

This is really irresponsible advice. The other manager has not issued an instruction to discuss this with them, and has no authority to offer a job in this way or to issue such an instruction. There is no job. There is no promotion. And who do you think is telling the current manager about these conversations - the tooth fairy?

When the employer has a promotion that the OP and others can apply for, then they can do so at that time. But this is not the way of going about it, and pestering the manager(s) is the fastest route to not progressing in the company.

ThemeOne

I love how in the usual judge and jury manner "speaking informally" with another manager about a possible new role has now become "pestering".

sangie595

ThemeOne wrote: »

I love how in the usual judge and jury manner "speaking informally" with another manager about a possible new role has now become "pestering".

So you do think it was the tooth fairy? Somebody has been telling the manager about these multiple conversations. Don't you think that another interpretation of "nothing yet" several times, combined with the manager somehow knowing about about off the record conversations (one of which happened when the manager wasn't even on the premises) is "take a hint, nothing's going to happen".

If the OP thinks this is all unfair, then they have recourse. The grievance procedure. Disobeying their manager is not an option.