Parking Charge Notice - Calder Park, Wakefield - Help

shaftonred

Hi, I have just had a letter from Vehicle Control Services Ltd who are requesting a payment of £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days for stopping to take a call for no less than 5 mins whilst on a business park.

There are a few small signs informing people not to park (which I have seen since going back) or they would be towed away but my assumption was that I wouldnt be hit for stopping for 5mins (maybe even less) especiall as I was at a part of road that went to nowhere as they had stopped building onto this road.. so in effect I wasnt obstructing anything.

Do I just need to send the template response letter for this? Want to avoid going to court but certainly dont want to pay £60 that I am being chased for.

In addition the back of the form shows that they are asking for my details as the driver.. do i give them this?

Sorry for the questions, just running out of time as I am due to go on holiday tomorrow morning

Carthesis

Rule #1: NEVER EVER IDENTIFY THE DRIVER. They shouldn't ask for it. You're under no obligation to provide it. They will try sneaky tricks to wheedle it out of you to be aware of.

Send off the template letter for the appropriate ATA (BPA or IPC) as per the thread.

Redx

VCS is IPC so use that template , do not identify the driver at all , the NEWBIES sticky thread is up to date and the advice in there is free and invaluable

Calder Park Wakefield has come up before on here so use the search box and have a read of those similar threads too (its one of these sc@mming "no stopping business parks)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5503294

edit post #1 so it does not identify the driver , none of this "me , myself and I" business !!!

and edit that post in the other thread too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5311491

Guys_Dad

What exactly do the signs say and are they on the entrance to the park or selectively displayed.

shaftonred

Sorry just back from holiday. The signs state "No Stopping, £100 charge if you stop payable within 28 days of the notice issue date. Private property managed by Vehicle Control Services Ltd".

I have also since received a response from the template letter on this site and they responded with a letter acknowledging the appeal. They have said that "they arent seeking to rely on POFA 2012 and despite the points I raise will continue to pursue the matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question."

"You have raised a number of points in your appeal which are not appropriate for us to deal with at this stage.... We will defend the points you have raised as appropriate should the matter proceed to the IAS and/or Court. We have therefore dealt with the pertinent points in your appeal below"......

Bit stuck now as to what my next step is so appreciate any help?

Carthesis

I have also since received a response from the template letter on this site and they responded with a letter acknowledging the appeal. They have said that "they arent seeking to rely on POFA 2012 and despite the points I raise will continue to pursue the matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question."

That means they've got nothing.

Your options now are:

a) write to them, inform them that there is no presumption in law that you are the driver, and that if they seek to rely on Elliott -v- Loake that this does not apply as that was a finding of fact based on overwhelming physical evidence. You then ignore them for 6 years unless you get court papers.

b) You appeal to IAS, with your sole appeal point being that VCS have admitted they are not attempting to transfer liability via POFA, and thus they cannot pursue you as RK, and there is no presumption of the identity of the driver as a) above. You wait and see what the IAS outcome is (likely they will also reject because they're a kangaroo court), and then you ignore for 6 years, excepting court paperwork, as a) above.

c) You ignore for 6 years, excepting court paperwork, as a) above.

If you choose to write to either VCS or IAS, then the wording you need should be based on the below:

As you have admitted you are not utilising the provisions of PoFA(2012), you are unable to transfer liability to the Registered Keeper, and as such, can only pursue the driver.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. The case of Elliott -v- Loake (1982), as you are well aware, is not applicable, as this was a criminal case with abundant physical evidence which allowed the identity of the driver to be a finding of fact, hence not merely a 'presumption' in case law. I refer you to the recent cases of Excel v Mr C (C8DP37F1), Stockport, 31/10/2016 and VCS v Mr A. (C8DP70P3), Birmingham, 23/11/2016 which both found that E-v-L could not be applicable to private parking cases. Further, I draw your attention to the comments of Parking and Traffic Appeals Service (PATAS) and Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA) Lead Adjudicator and Barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, who clarified that with regards to keeper liability, "there is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort" (p.12 POPLA Annual Report 2015).

Carthesis

Here's a practically identical case with VCS where they got hammered:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/vcs-lose-in-court-keeper-not-liable-for.html

Coupon-mad

shaftonred wrote: »

Sorry just back from holiday. The signs state "No Stopping, £100 charge if you stop payable within 28 days of the notice issue date. Private property managed by Vehicle Control Services Ltd".

I have also since received a response from the template letter on this site and they responded with a letter acknowledging the appeal. They have said that "they arent seeking to rely on POFA 2012 and despite the points I raise will continue to pursue the matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question."

"You have raised a number of points in your appeal which are not appropriate for us to deal with at this stage.... We will defend the points you have raised as appropriate should the matter proceed to the IAS and/or Court. We have therefore dealt with the pertinent points in your appeal below"......

Read Lamilad's thread.

No link, search for it and read it. Not sure why you haven't searched the forum already because this is covered umpteen times. No need to be stuck, come off your thread and read others where this has been done to death. Use the search function for keywords and you will never be stuck again - at the moment you've not even seen the tip of the iceberg of advice here on this forum, just waiting for you to read it.

shaftonred

So I have followed the instructions mentioned on here and this morning I opened the post to a letter from BW Legal in Leeds advising me that they are acting on behalf of Vehicle Control Services and have been instructed to collect the £100 fine plus the £60 legal costs and failure to pay within 16 days will possibly result in them issuing a CCJ against me.

One thing they mentioned was that i failed to appear within 28 days of the date of the PCN which isnt correct as I sent the standard letter found on this site.

I am just worried now as I am going to be selling my house to move soon and I can do without additional costs or a CCJ against my name. Is this just strong arm tactics.. unsure of what my next step is?

Guys_Dad

My advice for you is to read up and find out just how one gets a CCJ. Important info for anyone in this day and age.

Hint - scare tactics.

shaftonred

I have googled CCJ and from what I have seen it doesn't say its difficult to issue a CCJ and can be issued if the claimant has issued you with a prior warning letter ( https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/dealing-with-county-court-judgements-ccjs#how-a-ccj-affects-your-credit-record )


Cannot believe this has come this far for parking on a road which was effectively a dead end and not obstructing anyone for all of 2-3 mins at the most