Hallmark Holel Handforth

dave.b

Hello one and all
A driver at local brewery was today given a copy of a letter they have received from parkingeye.It says that a dray wagon that day was parked in the Hallmark Hotel car park without a ticket and was not delivering to the Hotel.

Redx

if you were there without permission of the landowner then it is unlikely that the hotel will help you , but you can try , nothing ventured , nothing gained

as for PE , you can appeal as KEEPER ()not as driver) on their website

the blue text BPA template from the NEWBIES sticky thread is what you want

read that thread several times so you understand the process

the correct procedure was for the RK or leasing agent to name the hirer or lessee of the vehicle (you) and then you would have got an NTK in your own name to deal with

the BVRLA and leasing and hire companies know all about this

Coupon-mad

dave.b wrote: »

Hello one and all
I work for a local brewery and today they have given me a copy of a letter they have received from parkingeye. It says that the dray wagon...was parked in the Hallmark Hotel car park without a ticket...

The company has said that its up to me to pay said ticket...

Was the PCN addressed to the company? Appeal it online in your name with your address, as the 'lessee/hirer' (choose that in ParkingEye's drop-down menu). NOT any other choice. NOPE. Not that - only 'lessee/hirer'.

You can start the appeal saying that xxxxxxx company has passed the PCN to you because you are the lessee of the vehicle.

Do not say who might have been driving nor what happened! Just continue in the style of appeal you will have found in the sticky thread already when you read it when browsing before posting this (the one called 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST').

You MUST edit your first post to remove any info about the driver and about why the vehicle was parked there. You can win this but YOU MUST edit away your first post - strip it down to the bare info (like I have shown above). DO THAT NOW. Do not talk about the driver or the story of what happened and do NOT ring the Hotel.

And please tell us if the PCN is the 'blank space' type of ParkingEye PCN as shown in a link in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread? Take a look to see what I'm talking about. Or does it talk about keeper liability under the POFA 2012?

pappa_golf

a simple question to ask

does your company have any dealings with the hotel , do you or your work friends actually deliver to it?

fisherjim

I don't get the references to The BVLRA or hirer/lessee.

The OP is a drayman who drives a brewery owned lorry not a vehicle hired or leased to him by a third party.

dave.b

I have removed the post.

Redx

you were told to edit post #1 to remove any idea about who "the driver" was but you have ignored that advice (which may bite you in the future) , so do it and ask CM to do the same in the quote too (which is why I did not quote it)

you were also told what to do in those replies, and CM said dont contact the hotel and I now agree as THE DRIVER was not "on business" there

CM also told you EXACTLY what to do which was appeal online as lessee/hirer, the NEWBIES sticky thread explains this (think of it as like a company car and appealed the same way) , it is the bottom of post #1 and titled

* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

car/van/dray wagon ?? - makes no difference , its a company vehicle on "hire" for the day and the keeper is the person they tasked it to for that day

nobody told you to appeal as owner, that would be stupid and a lie

nobody knows who the owner is , it could be a finance company (often it is) or it could be the brewery or even a lease/hire company , hence my BVRLA remarks last night

you are the "hirer" or "lessee" for the day , so that is how it is appealed

the point is that even if no money changes hands between you and the brewery its still effectively on "hire" to you for the day and you are the KEEPER for the day, so appeal in that manner as lessee/hirer as CM told you to do (as did I too)

as the driver was trespassing on private land with no onsite business there is no point contacting the hotel , plus the main point in all of this advice is that the driver is not identified , hence why you need to edit post #1 as it reads more like a witness statement for PE and could be used in court

learn to speak in the third party and no "me,myself or I" and no writing down a chain of events and timeline on a public forum that 7 billion people can access and read


so use the blue text BPA appeal template , on the PE website , choosing the dropdown box of hirer/lessee (even though you are the keeper for that day (somebody else could be the keeper the day before and the day after , as they are hirer/lessee and drivers change daily or hourly on dray wagons) - the driver was in charge of the vehicle that day and is the "hirer" on a nil cost basis , responsible for it being roadworthy and following the laws of the land , the rules of the road and not making rash or costly decisions like going under bridges that are too low , not crossing bridges that have weight restrictions and not trespassing on private property in "contravention" of the signage inposed on those premises (this would also include not stopping on RANSOMES business park , lol , or the PEEL owned SPEKE BUSINESS PARK near JLA for example , or Calder Park Business Park in Wakefield (another sc@mming "no stopping" rip off by VCS and Peel)

yes your company have passed it on to be sorted, but they too have failed because they are liable under POFA2012 if PE have followed the correct procedures and laws, so more fool them

they should have treated it like a company car and named the keeper, then PE would have sent that keeper an NTK, hence my point about the BVRLA guidelines as they have an understanding with the BPA

at the moment you dont seem to understand any of what has been said, hence why you need to follow the advice in the NEWBIES sticky thread and appeal as hirer/lessee (even if you dont understand it)

similar posts to yours would be ANY involving company cars. company vans , hire cars , hire vans , leased vehicles, there will be dozens if not hundreds of threads on those issues on here

parking without permission on private land is definitely not recommended , not since these sc@mmers now put up ANPR cameras and issue tickets

a laybay or truck stop or MSA or similar is where you should have stopped for a break, same as HGV drivers

dave.b

Thanks for getting back to me Redex,i have been trying to get my head around this and have read the sticky .Because i don't do this on a regular basis im not sure of the process and yes i should of stop somewhere else. I know you are not going to like this but would you add any thing else other than the issue number, I appreciate your feedback and comments thanks.

Redx

I cannot think of anything to add that would help nor will PE cancel the ticket as the parking rules were not followed on that private site, nor did the driver have any business onsite either

use the blue text appeal, choose hirer/lessee (which you are and does not identify the driver) and put in the details and a serviceable address etc as required

be careful you do this correctly and not as driver , if you had read the sticky then you should have seen the section at the bottom of post #1 about company vehicles

and edit post #1 asap too

read this page just to see the arguments in court as to POFA2012 and why the driver should not be named or inferred in these cases

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5478608

the point here is to get a popla code and use legal arguments at popla to try to get it quashed, but bear in mind that PE try to use POFA2012 at all times unless they fail to get the NTK out in time (which is when they remove the POFA paragraph in the NTK)

that thread above was EXCEL and like VCS their sister company they fail POFA2012 despite it being a new law for over 4 years already , but this is PE , not Excel

Coupon-mad

dave.b wrote: »

Thanks for all the replys,i have been looking through a lot of post and couldn't find one similar to my issue.

We do not do any business with said Hotel and it looks like my company are just saying sort it out as, just pay it.

I don't have the copy of the letter to hand at the moment because im having my car serviced so i can say how its set out.I was going to ask the head of transport to ring the Hotel hoping they may understand that i need to stop but i have not asked yet,would it be a waste of time? .

You need to edit another bit of your first post. You have missed something that needs deleting.

I can't see that you've told us if this was a PCN that alleges keeper liability but the fact it's addressed to the company and YOU will be appealing it as 'lessee/hirer' means PE cannot contact the company again AT ALL and will now deal with you only.

That IS 'sorting it out'!!

So please don't pay it. By appealing as LESSEE/HIRER we are handing you the detail that will WIN the appeal for you at POPLA.

After you send the usual template appeal (online to PE 'contact/appeal' - NOT by post!) starting by stating that the PCN has been passed to you as you are the lessee of this vehicle, I would expect PE to suddenly send you your 'own' PCN out of the blue in your name. That one might give 21 days and be worded a bit differently. Do not accidentally choose anything else in PE's drop-down menu, ONLY 'lessee/hirer'.

I would recommend then repeating the appeal same as before, when you get that. In the end a hirer/lessee wins at POPLA because PE can't comply with the POFA for these ones. We have LOADS of hirer/lessee cases that PE throw in the towel about, at POPLA stage. Impossible to lose, I'd say, as long as (in these posts) you stop saying who might have been driving and do NOT imply as such in your appeals.

Do not PAY! Waste of time to ask anyone to ring the Hotel. I already said that before; do NOT do that.

Edit your first post a bit more, look how I quoted it and what I removed!!!

And you now need to edit the post I quoted above as well because you've done it again...too much information about 'driving'.

dave.b

Evening,sent the blue template appeal Sunday to Parkingeye as the "keeper" ,got confirmation and reference number at the end of the appeal but ive not heard a thing since is that normal ?