Need someone to check over my tenancy agreement please.

Guest101

What a piece of paper says is irrelevant to be honest

G_M

By all means ask. But i'll save you some time and answer as he will:

"I am offering you a licencee agreement and you'll be a licencee bound by the terms of the agreement."

This will, of course, be legal bunkum (as I've shown and as Guest's link above confirms).

But he's not going to suddenly change his approach and say "OK. You got me! The contract I'm offering you is a load of carp - I'll draw you up a new proper tenancy agreement now."

Your options are

1) walk away, or

2) sign the agreement and then argue out each issue as it arises eg

* put a lock on the door and then go to court when he breaks in
* refuse to move when he tries to switch your room
* refuse to leave when he tries to evict you illegaly
* sue him for the 3 times penalty when he fails to protect your deposit
etc

eskimo26

G_M wrote: »

By all means ask. But i'll save you some time and answer as he will:

"I am offering you a licencee agreement and you'll be a licencee bound by the terms of the agreement."

This will, of course, be legal bunkum (as I've shown and as Guest's link above confirms).

But he's not going to suddenly change his approach and say "OK. You got me! The contract I'm offering you is a load of carp - I'll draw you up a new proper tenancy agreement now."

Your options are

1) walk away, or

2) sign the agreement and then argue out each issue as it arises eg

* put a lock on the door and then go to court when he breaks in
* refuse to move when he tries to switch your room
* refuse to leave when he tries to evict you illegaly
* sue him for the 3 times penalty when he fails to protect your deposit
etc

Thanks G_M, I think there are locks on the bedroom door it was another property that didn't have locks on the door. I'm going to ask him to clarify things, would it help if I have him in writing confirming I would be a tenant at the property?

He pointed out the sofa in the room and said it would be comfortable for overnight guests.

G_M

As I thought I'd just said, he is hardly likely to use a contract like that, descibing you as a licencee, and deliberately including clauses that apply to licencees but not tenants, and then turn round and say "Yes you are a tenant."

But by all means try.

eskimo26

I read the article. So from what it said and what others are saying he's mixed a tenancy agreement with a lodger agreement to muddy the waters but it is very unlikely to stand up in court.

The property is a little run down but generally in good nic where it counts. Central heated, furniture is solid, dryer, washer, fibre broadband, gas hob and all inclusive- I checked the heating was on when we walked in. It's a typical student let. I don't understand the article saying HMOs are for the desperate, aren't all renters in a mixed house that is an HMO?

EDIT: Ummm... I just read the guarantor form and it refers to the 'tenancy agreement' and the 'tenant'. Any implications? It also says that the landlord or an authorised person from nupad lettings [agency I was with last year that recommended him] can sign it. So he is working closely with the agency and I know they are genuine.

zebulon

eskimo26 wrote: »

I know they are genuine.

Genuine doesn't equate competent.

Did you speak to any of the other 5 occupants ? Talk about their experience with the LL / 'person managing the property' ?

eskimo26

zebulon wrote: »

Genuine doesn't equate competent.

Did you speak to any of the other 5 occupants ? Talk about their experience with the LL / 'person managing the property' ?

Not in this house but in one of the ones I viewed a couple weeks ago one of the female tenants was there as he showed me round. She seemed happy enough, their wasn't any tension or awkwardness between her and him that stood out. They spoke and it all pretty casual.

I appreciate some of you might think you've wasted your time helping me but what you have to appreciate is that it is this property or ones with similar price that don't have comparable location, facilities or room size, were dirtier and aren't inclusive.

The draw of all bills included is that I don't freeze like I did last year because one of my flatmates is stingy, I have a condition that affects my muscles.

The other 'options' aren't really options.
Option 1: The property I mentioned before where the LL hadn't bothered paying for HMO status. No locks as a result.

Room was smaller but tolerable- kitchen and bathrooms were nice and on first viewing I thought for sure that was it.

When I viewed it the second time the place stank- absolutely rancid. They had the heating up and hadn't taken the bins out.

This was the second time I'd walking into this property and the thermostat was on the highest setting of 30 degrees. Bills are NOT included and it was at the top of my budget. It would be hands down more expensive then the property discussed in this thread.

The clincher was when I over heard a conversation where the estate agent was dressing down a tenant for having someone over. Apparently the LL walking in and heard nooky noises.

So basically the estate agent had kept from me that it was very strictly no visitors overnight because of insurance. Now i'm a mature student who is not likely to be doing that but i'm also 33 and an adult. I might have a friend stay 3/4 times a year. Hasn't happens yet but I don,t want to be treated like a naughty child. It is acceptable for an LL to walk in and disturb a tenants life like that.

Option 2: Agency again. Smaller room but still manageable. Cold because the heating wasn't on and bills on top so heating would probably stay off to save on bills. A run down kitchen and bathroom/toilet next to it servicing the whole house of 4 or 5. The place was filthy, the sink was literally black. They were clearly not cleaning at all.

Option 3: Another small double but again that's fine. Heating was off likely because bills are on top again. It was above a shop on a main road. Very dark and didn't look to clean but was completely tolerable for me. Not within walking distance of the university like the others [A big factor as my disability makes bus journeys tiring]. About the same price once he dropped the price and "made me an offer."

Option 4: I've only seen photos because they consistently cancelled viewings. It is the same layout as my current property I am leaving. I've had nothing but issues with the layout of this property. It's a kitchen/living room where the other students are smoking [makes me really sick because of my disability]. They are loud at all hours and the sound travels to my room. I'm on good terms with them and we are friends but they are young first time renters and they've smashed the property up. I don't want a repeat by renting another house with the carbon copy layout.

option 5: A mixed house with students and professionals, I'm trying to get a viewing but drastically running out of time. It looks very nice but they want a "quiet individual." Fine i'm willing to accept that. I have no idea if it is an agency or private LL. I have no idea if they are strict with terms or will accept a guarantor. It presents as a high end property so they might be stricter.

option 6: Another private LL, no links to a trusted estate agent. Asked for money to be put in his account as soon as possible to hold the room. "dropped" the price from ludicrous to top end of budget. Tenant seemed on good terms with him. Bills included but put an arbitrary figure on the maximum he would pay on bills before asking for a contribution.

Option 7: The property discussed in this thread. It is a very large double. Bills included. No chance of the kitchen doubling up as a living room and no smoking. Price is at the top of my budget but average for what it is, i've seen more expensive for less. Student house. Repairs have just been done in the room so it is maintained. Two very basic but clean bathroom. Kitchen was clean. Cheap, saggy mattress in my room but I can deal with that myself.

So it is the devil or the cold blue sea.

But I DO appreciate all your help and your times not been wasted. I understand what your all saying. Thanks for the help will keep you all posted.

booksurr

you have a very simple choice

either you take the room on the basis it is the best of what you have seen and financially is "all inclusive" and you forget all about questioning the legality of your "agreement" on the basis the LL is a "nice" bloke and his other tenants seem "happy" so you live there for a year, pay the rent, leave and never have any further dealings with him for the rest of your life (probably including agreeing to the deductions he will make from your deposit)

or, you question everything, you now know his "agreement" is legal rubbish and would fail at every turn if it came to court, which is of course what will happen as you challenge him over everything he does to you

so which fight do you want?

PS the guarantor form refers to "tenancy agreement" because he is using off the shelf documents. Obviously he has not "doctored" it to refer to "licencees". Again what is written on the paperwork is not necessarily how a court will see it or interpret it.

pmlindyloo

Are you actually a student? I am presuming so.

You will have a welfare officer/housing officer (or similar title) at your university.

Take all your paperwork to them and ask for their advice.

eskimo26

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Are you actually a student? I am presuming so.

You will have a welfare officer/housing officer (or similar title) at your university.

Take all your paperwork to them and ask for their advice.

Thanks I'll look into that and see if they are oprn atm.

Guys I viewed another property today which was very nice. Mixed student and professionals but it's independent landlords again. Funny thing is a tenant showed me round but denies being related to the landlords.

I've asked him to arrange to send the paperwork through and told them i'll go ahead if I was happy with the tenancy agreement. [I explained the reason to him].

I just realised I should probably speak to the landlords to make sure it's not a sublet?

Housing office at the uni is closed. They are useless.