UKPC Help

danblake

Good morning all, I have used this forum many times and have had two successful fines withdrawn. Although this time I am not sure what to do.

On the 01/09/2016 my father received a parking fine at Didcot Railway Station car park that is controlled by UKPC. The fine was a window sticker. Using this forum I have followed what I believe is correct and appealed on the 26/09/2016 via the web appeal process using the template below

---

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.!

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in!ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

---

I received an automated response from this immediately. This response said;

Your charge will be placed on hold whilst under appeal and we will aim to respond to you by formal letter/e-mail to the address supplied within 35 days, should you not receive a response within this time, please contact our information line on 0333 220 1070.

Please do not respond directly to this email as it is automatically generated and you will not receive a reply.

If you have already been issued with a final letter in response to a previous appeal and you are not providing any further evidence to substantiate your case, then please do not expect a response from us.

---

I have since had nothing and this is day 52 (assuming weekends count of course)

Since then I have received a postal NTK on the 04/11/16, this was actually dated 01/11/2016. This is 60 days after the incident (assuming weekends count of course)

My questions are;

• I am not entirely sure what I should do now. I assume that I need to wait for my appeal to be addressed or do I need to contact them as per above automated email. If I do contact them what should or shouldn't I say?

Currently how do I stand considering they have not met any deadlines on responses so far?

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Carthesis

It's a railway station, so likely byelaws apply, meaning that only the railway company can do court, and only for trespass, and only within 6 months.

On top of that, they only have 56 days from the incident to get an NtK in your hands following the alleged infraction in order to invoke keeper liability under POFA.

I'd be tempted to write to them as a response to the NtK, point that out to them, further pointing out they have failed to respond to your original windscreen appeal, and that as such they have not only breached the CoP, but also exhausted their options for transfer of keeper liability under POFA.

It's worth pointing out that POFA likely doesn't apply as railway car parks are generally not "relevant land", but i reckon it's worth hitting them with that tack first and seeing what they say.

Fruitcake

You have a PoPLA code and several winning appeal points. I would send in a PoPLA appeal as near to the PoPLA deadline as possible as your aim is to drag this out past six months at which point it becomes statute barred. Only the owner can be held liable and as already advised, only the train operating company can issue court papers, and only for trespass, and only within six months.

Template appeal points are now included in the NEWBIES thread and add that byelaws apply.

PoPLA have put byelaw cases on hold so make sure you put the word BYELAW in bold type in your heading and appeal so it gets put on the correct pile.

danblake

Fruitcake - I don't actually have a POPLA code yet because they haven't actually responded to my first appeal. Can they use the should you not receive a response within this time, please contact our information line on 0333 220 1070. as a get out for not responding to my appeal?

danblake

Carthesis - The car park is actually opposite the railway station so might not be classed as an actual railway station. Sorry I should have made that clear.
Should I use the online portal again to respond to my no response on appeal? I am also really unsure what to write other than what you have said. Can it just be short and sweet?

Carthesis

Well the signs on Google Earth suggest 'Premier Parking Solutions' run the car park (the pay and display just off the main road right opposite the station drop-off loop). That's pictures from April last year, so has the PPC changed?

Also, as it's a P'n'D, do you still have the ticket for which you paid?

DID you in fact buy a ticket?

It may be that this isn't byelaw land anyway in the circumstances, in which case POFA will apply, however they've still blown it for transfer of keeper liability due to failure to adhere to mandatory timescales.

Fruitcake

Did you appeal online or by post?

If you have proof that you appealed you should complain to the BPA that you haven't been given a PoPLA code, and send a copy to UKPC.

Alternatively, send the BPA template in blue from the NEWBIE thread again but add a one liner that they cannot invoke keeper liability because the NTK arrived too late at day 60. Obviously do it so you don't reveal who was driving.

In fact, I would do the latter and complain to the BPA that your appeal has been ignored.

Edit.

I re-read your initial post and see you have proof you submitted an appeal, and got a response. So, complain to the BPA and wait for them to sort it out. Send a copy of the complaint to the scammers but don't otherwise engage with them.

danblake

@Carthesis - It is actually a relatively new car park next to the PPS car park. This one that I have the ticket for is run by UKPC and the reason I am struggling a little. PPS I have managed to get two retracted this year.

I don't have the ticket unfortunately, this is because my father actually parked the car and I was not with him. He lives in OZ and was simply borrowing my car. He says he used the TEXT service but even I struggle with these sometimes. I have to assume he tried but might not have followed the process exactly.

danblake

@Fruitcake - yes I got an automated response to say they would contact me in 35 days. they of course haven't and that's why I am a little stuck. I kind of thought I should wait for them to respond to my appeal.

So my next step should be to complain to the BPA? and to say I have asked for a POPLA code and they have not sent this it has now been 17 days over the 35 days.
They have also been late to send the NTK!

Fruitcake

danblake wrote: »

@Fruitcake - yes I got an automated response to say they would contact me in 35 days. they of course haven't and that's why I am a little stuck. I kind of thought I should wait for them to respond to my appeal.

So my next step should be to complain to the BPA? and to say I have asked for a POPLA code and they have not sent this it has now been 17 days over the 35 days.
They have also been late to send the NTK!

Your initial appeal has been ignored and you weren't provided with a PoPLA code, so complain to the BPA about this. Attach a copy of your appeal and a copy of the electronic confirmation of receipt by the scammers.

As for the rest, you can name the driver and give his address overseas. Make sure he replies and admits to being the driver. Game over from UKPC.
If they try to go after the keeper after that, report the to the BPA and keep doing it every time they contact you once you have given them the name and contact address for the driver. This can be done at any time up to the issuing of court papers, so if you want this to go away, do it now. It probably asks you to do this on the NTK anyway.

Alternatively go down the PoPLA route and cost the scammers money. If you win, game over. If you lose, name the driver and give the overseas address.

There is fun to be had with this if you wish it.

danblake

thanks Fruitcake. I would rather not bother my father about all this so I might just say that I don't recall who was driving.
In all honesty I said to my Dad, don't worry I can sort this without the need for him to be involved. I felt pretty confident that I cold sort it out.
I will complain to the BPA and see what happens.