Income protection - how do I get it?

muhandis

Well, there's no point in us arguing about this. As an IFA, you are clearly of the opinion that IFAs can provide superior protection related advice as compared to a Protection-only Advisor. Which is absolutely fine, that's your opinion.

And I am of the opinion (from my personal experience) that IFAs weren't interested in my business. I got excellent advice (coupled with flexible and hands on service that went the extra mile) from an expert regulated Protection-only Advisor who knew her stuff in depth, had access to a good range of insurance providers and recommended a product that met my needs.

So I myself wouldn't look to an IFA if I needed to review my protection needs in the future. I'm sure there might be others who have had the opposite experience and specialist Protection Advisors who would argue that they are better source for protection advice than an IFA for whom Protection is but a small part of their business.

We'll agree to disagree.

dunstonh wrote: »

I understand you post on your experience and that is useful information. However, I believe the preference is a good IFA who works in the protection market (and evenings if required!) vs a good sales rep with limited product range and higher premiums.

csgohan4

muhandis wrote: »

Well, there's no point in us arguing about this. As an IFA, you are clearly of the opinion that IFAs can provide superior protection related advice as compared to a Protection-only Advisor. Which is absolutely fine, that's your opinion.

And I am of the opinion (from my personal experience) that IFAs weren't interested in my business. I got excellent advice (coupled with flexible and hands on service that went the extra mile) from an expert regulated Protection-only Advisor who knew her stuff in depth, had access to a good range of insurance providers and recommended a product that met my needs.

So I myself wouldn't look to an IFA if I needed to review my protection needs in the future. I'm sure there might be others who have had the opposite experience and specialist Protection Advisors who would argue that they are better source for protection advice than an IFA for whom Protection is but a small part of their business.

We'll agree to disagree.

I agree with Dunstoh, a broker with a larger portfolio to choose from trumps someone who can sell you a limited range for their own pocket/ commission. From a consumer point of view.


Simply you got a good sales rep who had her own bank account in mind, not you. An IFA generally looks at your own circumstances and matches you to a product


While not all IFA are equal which you have found out, a whole of market IFA is much better to start with

muhandis

Again, that's your opinion, can't argue with that.

An IFA can theoretically offer the best advice in the world but if he doesn't give too hoots about your custom or protection is but a tiny part of his business, it doesn't help me at all. From a consumer point of view.

I got a regulated Protection Advisor (who only advises on Protection) who gave me excellent expert advice tailored to my circumstances and superb customer service to go with it, I'll take her over your IFA any day

csgohan4 wrote: »

I agree with Dunstoh, a broker with a larger portfolio to choose from trumps someone who can sell you a limited range for their own pocket/ commission. From a consumer point of view.

Simply you got a good sales rep who had her own bank account in mind, not you. An IFA generally looks at your own circumstances and matches you to a product

While not all IFA are equal which you have found out, a whole of market IFA is much better to start with

kingstreet

muhandis wrote: »

I got a regulated Protection Advisor (who only advises on Protection) who gave me excellent expert advice tailored to my circumstances and superb customer service to go with it, I'll take her over your IFA any day

... and whose products was she able to advise on?

How do you know your recommended product is value for money/quality compared to the market as a whole, if she is unable to objectively compare the whole market?

DEFAQTO star ratings? CI Expert Report? Purely cost-based?

Your contention re IFAs is around the lack of service you have received at enquiry stage from a couple; not the quality/value of product, so you are effectively comparing apples and oranges as you only have experience of the whole process on one side of the equation..

Service quality/warm fuzzy feeling on one side, an IFA will always be able to find the best cover at the best price. An IFA may have achieved the cover you have taken at a lower price because tied/multi-tied advisors often exchange higher client premiums for higher commission compared with those available to IFAs.

BTW I have no axe to grind here. I'm a member of a multi-tied network with a panel of twelve life offices for life, CI & IP cover. However, we use the IFA premium/commission levels, not those of a tied-agent.

muhandis

If you read my initial post you will see that it is as a consumer who has been in the OP's shoes with the same concerns that she had. I did not diss IFAs in any way.

People then opined (without any evidence) that the Protection Advisor who advised me was money-hungry, didn't tailor her advice to my circumstances, etc etc and that I should have gone to an IFA. They also implied that I received inferior advice (again, without any evidence) and that the Protection Adviser was not regulated (wrong again).

"How do you know your recommended product is value for money/quality compared to the market as a whole, if she is unable to objectively compare the whole market?"

What whole market are you going on about? The couple of IFAs that I talked to never said they have access to the whole market, one mentioned FL, L&G and Vitality (the same as my Protection Adviser). The other mentioned L&G, LV and FL. Or like the fee-only service that they supposedly offer, do they only mention it if I ask?

DEFAQTO star ratings? CI Expert Report? Purely cost-based?

Defaqto 5 star, claim payout stats, features that I needed, my budget, etc.

Your contention re IFAs is around the lack of service you have received at enquiry stage from a couple; not the quality/value of product, so you are effectively comparing apples and oranges as you only have experience of the whole process on one side of the equation.

That's your opinion. Again, as I've mentioned countless times, I talked about my experience. I've talked to IFAs trying to get protection advice and was disappointed straight off the bat. Why on earth would I chase behind someone who isn't interested? Would you take a half-day off to meet a supplier who can't be bothered to return calls or clearly isn't interested in giving just the advice you need?

As a consumer I don't give a rat's furry behind about whether the person advising me is an IFA, a Protection only adviser or the Grand Vizier of Insuranceland, as long as they are regulated by the FCA, have a brick-and-mortar office, a complaints process in place and can provide a decent level of customer service.

Service quality/warm fuzzy feeling on one side, an IFA will always be able to find the best cover at the best price. An IFA may have achieved the cover you have taken at a lower price because tied/multi-tied advisors often exchange higher client premiums for higher commission compared with those available to IFAs.

Service quality might be "on one side" to you as an adviser, but is front and centre to me as a consumer. Theoretically great product offerings are all nice and dandy, but if it is being hawked by a disinterested party who can't be bothered, it's of no use to me.

BTW I have no axe to grind here. I'm a member of a multi-tied network with a panel of twelve life offices for life, CI & IP cover. However, we use the IFA premium/commission levels, not those of a tied-agent.

Good for you. Similarly, as I have explained above, I have absolutely nothing at all against IFAs and did not in any way imply that they are rubbish in my initial post to the OP. I only brought up my experience with IFAs when people made wrong assumptions and blanket statements of opinion about my experiences as a consumer with regard to getting IP cover.

kingstreet wrote: »

... and whose products was she able to advise on?

How do you know your recommended product is value for money/quality compared to the market as a whole, if she is unable to objectively compare the whole market?

DEFAQTO star ratings? CI Expert Report? Purely cost-based?

Your contention re IFAs is around the lack of service you have received at enquiry stage from a couple; not the quality/value of product, so you are effectively comparing apples and oranges as you only have experience of the whole process on one side of the equation..

Service quality/warm fuzzy feeling on one side, an IFA will always be able to find the best cover at the best price. An IFA may have achieved the cover you have taken at a lower price because tied/multi-tied advisors often exchange higher client premiums for higher commission compared with those available to IFAs.

BTW I have no axe to grind here. I'm a member of a multi-tied network with a panel of twelve life offices for life, CI & IP cover. However, we use the IFA premium/commission levels, not those of a tied-agent.

kingstreet

I hope you are not seeing the response you have received as confrontational as it appears you are...? I'm not sitting red-faced and gasping with ire as I type!

This thread has developed to help people get an overall view of how to get advice and what to look for.

Did your "advisor" have access to all providers of the products you wanted to purchase (the definition of whole market!), or to only one or a limited number?

This is the key difference between the sources of available advice.

Most people want to be confident they at least have a chance of the best price/cover.

No-one suggested you use the firms with whom you were unhappy at the reception you received, but suggesting all IFAs are bad and all "protection advisors" are good is a bit over simplistic. I understand you're talking about your experience, but to reiterate, it's your experience of early stage discussions with a couple of IFAs (who were, I agree not interested in your business) versus the entire sales process from someone who was.

Finding someone who offers the level of service you experienced, but with access to all products in the market should be the optimum target for all consumers, shouldn't it?

muhandis

Yes, I did see the response as confrontational, happy to know that I was wrong about that.

This thread has developed to help people get an overall view of how to get advice and what to look for.

Agreed, and that is why I posted my experience as a consumer on how to get advice and what to look for.

Did your "advisor" have access to all providers of the products you wanted to purchase (the definition of whole market!), or to only one or a limited number?

You don't have to put "advisor" in quotes. Her day to day job is advising clients on how best to meet their protection needs, her advice is regulated by the FCA. So she is no more an "adviser" than you are a "mortgage broker".

This is the key difference between the sources of available advice.

That might be the key difference for you, for me the key difference was what was available on my terms and whether it met my needs. As I said, the IFAs I spoke to offered much the same.

Most people want to be confident they at least have a chance of the best price/cover.

Yes, I am confident that I did have the chance of the best price/cover that was accessible to me and met my needs and circumstances. But again, I have to balance it out with what is practically available in my area tailored to my situation and work timings.

No-one suggested you use the firms with whom you were unhappy at the reception you received, but suggesting all IFAs are bad and all "protection advisors" are good is a bit over simplistic.

You're putting words in my mouth and making unsubstantiated sweeping statements yourself. Unlike other posters who derided the advice I received (with no evidence) just because it wasn't an IFA, I did not suggest all IFAs are bad or all Protection Advisors are good, just that the ones I talked to met that description. I'm sure you'll agree that all "mortgage brokers" aren't as good as yourself

I understand you're talking about your experience, but to reiterate, it's your experience of early stage discussions with a couple of IFAs (who were, I agree not interested in your business) versus the entire sales process from someone who was.

Thanks for reiterating what I myself have repeated multiple times that it is my experience that was the basis of my post. The entire sales process starts from an enquiry, so that's what I judged it on, no apologies for that.

Finding someone who offers the level of service you experienced, but with access to all products in the market should be the optimum target for all consumers, shouldn't it?

Motherhood and apple pie, can't argue with that. Of course I want someone with impeccable customer service who can offer me all the choice in the world. The two (level of service and access to all/maximum products) go hand in hand.

The providers she offered had value products, feature rich mix and match products and speciality products with choices far in excess of my needs. Plus she delivered her advice in a manner and at times that matched my circumstances and was available to answer any queries promptly. As a consumer, isn't that what I'm looking for?

kingstreet

Sorry if my prejudice is showing, but in the thirty-odd years I've worked in the business, tied salesmen for the likes of Abbey Life and Allied Dunbar have called themselves advisors when in fact they were salesmen of their one host firm's products.

They also didn't always make that status clear.

As a mortgage broker, I'm exactly that and there is nothing other than what's on the tin...

As we can all agree that;-

I want someone with impeccable customer service who can offer me all the choice in the world. The two (level of service and access to all/maximum products) go hand in hand

this should be everyone's starting point, let's hope the OP gets the right cover at the right price

muhandis

I completely get where you're coming from, but regulations have changed a lot and the mountain of paperwork that I received with my advice (FCA checklists, complaint procedures, fact sheets, transparent fees) says as much. The firm that employs the advisor I used is a large FCA authorised firm that is very unlikely to use any sales techniques that would come back to bite them on their behind any more than they would pick mortgages based on the proc fee involved.

I'm not denying that there will be short-sighted advisors trying to milk clients for every penny they're worth but there'll also be cowboy IFAs doing the same with regard to investments, pensions, etc. That's an ugly fact of human nature.

kingstreet wrote: »

Sorry if my prejudice is showing, but in the thirty-odd years I've worked in the business, tied salesmen for the likes of Abbey Life and Allied Dunbar have called themselves advisors when in fact they were salesmen of their one host firm's products.

They also didn't always make that status clear.

As a mortgage broker, I'm exactly that and there is nothing other than what's on the tin...

As we can all agree that;-

this should be everyone's starting point, let's hope the OP gets the right cover at the right price

dunstonh

The firm that employs the advisor I used is a large FCA authorised firm that is very unlikely to use any sales techniques that would come back to bite them on their behind any more than they would pick mortgages based on the proc fee involved.

Historically, it has been the largest firms that have caused the most trouble. The small local firms are more reliant on local reputation and image and referrals from existing clients and usually deal with multiple generations of the same family. Lose one family member and you lose the lot.

Large firms have had big problems controlling their staff. Whilst they will have some very good members they will also have some poor ones and the FCA response to this has been to encourage the firms to put in robust systems and controls that effectively put all the staff at a level that accommodates the lowest common denominator.

I'm not denying that there will be short-sighted advisors trying to milk clients for every penny they're worth but there'll also be cowboy IFAs doing the same with regard to investments, pensions, etc. That's an ugly fact of human nature.

True. However, in context, IFAs handle over 70% of pension business. Millions of transactions a year. Yet only have around 2500 complaints at the FOS each year with most rejected. IFAs account for 1% of FOS complaints. No distribution channel can ever be perfect. However, IFAs and whole of market intermediaries have the best reputation.

You wont know the personality of a tied, multi-tied/limited panel or whole of market individual. However, you do know that an IFA is going to be getting the best advised prices and will be whole of market. So, the ideal scenario is a good IFA. Not a good limited sales rep/insurance agent.