On a zero hours contract and told boss are unavailable, is this a problem?

cuboid_2

Isn't it true that on a zero hours contract you don't have to work hours they give you if you choose not to?


My boss is getting angry that I've made myself unavailable for a few weeks.


I was given scraps of hours here and there for quite awhile- changing from week to week so got fed up and trying to go self-employed through the New Enterprise Allowance but to do this you need to go on job seekers for a few weeks. If you're on job seekers it makes no sense in working so I told my boss I am unavailable. I didn't tell him I am on JSA He is now getting angry and wants to talk!! He messed me around so am I not entitled to do the same!! I told him I will be available in 1 or 2 weeks.




They recently dismissed my colleague on the grounds of poor performance but kept me on and my colleague thinks they kept me on as I have been there 5 years and he less than 2 so I could take them to an industrial tribunal whereas he can't. In January they will renew all of our year contracts. (They cancel everyone's and give out new ones every year.) They might not renew mine, and use the excuse of me not being available!! What to do?


I hate the job but it's money while I try and build up my own business so wanted to stay there bit longer.

Mr.Generous

have you got a business plan they will sign off for NEA? If so then just resign and start planning / building your business (while signing on, I know 3 people who have got NEA and all 3 started work soonest if you get my drift)

Masomnia

Zero hours is zero hours, so no you don't 'have' to work and it works both ways; if they're so desperate for you to work they should give you proper hours. It might not foster a good relationship with your boss if you do continually turn work down, though.

Not renewing a fixed term contract counts as a dismissal in law, so with your length of service you may well have recourse to an unfair dismissal claim if it comes to it. FTCs aren't really my area, but I think with your length of service they should be treating you as a permanent employee anyway, but someone else should be able to clarify that.

sangie595

cuboid wrote: »

Isn't it true that on a zero hours contract you don't have to work hours they give you if you choose not to?


My boss is getting angry that I've made myself unavailable for a few weeks.


I was given scraps of hours here and there for quite awhile- changing from week to week so got fed up and trying to go self-employed through the New Enterprise Allowance but to do this you need to go on job seekers for a few weeks. If you're on job seekers it makes no sense in working so I told my boss I am unavailable. I didn't tell him I am on JSA He is now getting angry and wants to talk!! He messed me around so am I not entitled to do the same!! I told him I will be available in 1 or 2 weeks.




They recently dismissed my colleague on the grounds of poor performance but kept me on and my colleague thinks they kept me on as I have been there 5 years and he less than 2 so I could take them to an industrial tribunal whereas he can't. In January they will renew all of our year contracts. (They cancel everyone's and give out new ones every year.) They might not renew mine, and use the excuse of me not being available!! What to do?


I hate the job but it's money while I try and build up my own business so wanted to stay there bit longer.

If you are on a zero hours contract you are a worker and cannot claim unfair dismissal. No matter how long you work there.

Yes, you are entitled to say that you won't accept work. And the employer is entitled to not give you any work. That's how it is. Even with a "contract" you are not entitled to work, so if he is minded not to give you any,, it doesn't matter at all whether he waits until January or not.

Sorry - you pretty much have no rights at all here.

cuboid_2

sangie595 wrote: »

If you are on a zero hours contract you are a worker and cannot claim unfair dismissal. No matter how long you work there.

Yes, you are entitled to say that you won't accept work. And the employer is entitled to not give you any work. That's how it is. Even with a "contract" you are not entitled to work, so if he is minded not to give you any,, it doesn't matter at all whether he waits until January or not.

Sorry - you pretty much have no rights at all here.

Sorry you're wrong, with more than 2 years service even on zero hrs you have rights. However, my employment lawyer said that if I keep making myself unavailable then it would reduce my rights if it went to a tribunal.






But how do I play this? Still don't know exactly when I will get on NEA so what do I say to my slimey, lying boss? He will ask what I am doing and what I am up to; he's probably heard rumours but doesn't know for sure.

cuboid_2

Mr.Generous wrote: »

have you got a business plan they will sign off for NEA? If so then just resign and start planning / building your business (while signing on, I know 3 people who have got NEA and all 3 started work soonest if you get my drift)[/QUOTE]


Don't understand this bit?

sangie595

cuboid wrote: »

Sorry you're wrong, with more than 2 years service even on zero hrs you have rights. However, my employment lawyer said that if I keep making myself unavailable then it would reduce my rights if it went to a tribunal.
.

I am sorry - you are either not on a zero hours contract or your "lawyer" is wrong. People on zero hours contracts are workers and not employees and therefore cannot claim unfair dismissal. The only exception to this is that an employer cannot enforce an exclusivity clause and a dismissal for such a reason is automatically unfair. And you do not need two years service for that, so that is clearly not what you were talking about. Your employer is not doing this - "exclusivity" and "not being available" are not remotely the same thing. If you are "dismissed" for not being available, you cannot bring any action.

I suggest that if you have an employment lawyer, you ask them how to play this.

Undervalued

sangie595 wrote: »

I am sorry - you are either not on a zero hours contract or your "lawyer" is wrong. People on zero hours contracts are workers and not employees and therefore cannot claim unfair dismissal. The only exception to this is that an employer cannot enforce an exclusivity clause and a dismissal for such a reason is automatically unfair. And you do not need two years service for that, so that is clearly not what you were talking about. Your employer is not doing this - "exclusivity" and "not being available" are not remotely the same thing. If you are "dismissed" for not being available, you cannot bring any action.

I suggest that if you have an employment lawyer, you ask them how to play this.

Indeed.

In any case it is a totally moot point. As the employer is not obliged to offer you any hours then the whole concept of dismissal becomes rather meaningless!

cuboid_2

sangie595 wrote: »

I am sorry - you are either not on a zero hours contract or your "lawyer" is wrong. People on zero hours contracts are workers and not employees and therefore cannot claim unfair dismissal. The only exception to this is that an employer cannot enforce an exclusivity clause and a dismissal for such a reason is automatically unfair. And you do not need two years service for that, so that is clearly not what you were talking about. Your employer is not doing this - "exclusivity" and "not being available" are not remotely the same thing. If you are "dismissed" for not being available, you cannot bring any action.

I suggest that if you have an employment lawyer, you ask them how to play this.

Well my lawyer through the GMB and ACCAS disagree with you, over 2 years continuous service on a zero hours contract gives you rights if dismissed. Go and double check your info. Obviously I would need to be available to work. I was initially on some sort of 15 hr contract then nothing for 3 years then 6 hrs and this year zero. I don't know if that affects anything!


Our contracts are cancelled and new ones given out every January though. They did this to prevent people getting on permanent contracts.

takman

cuboid wrote: »

Well my lawyer through the GMB and ACCAS disagree with you, over 2 years continuous service on a zero hours contract gives you rights if dismissed. Go and double check your info. Obviously I would need to be available to work. I was initially on some sort of 15 hr contract then nothing for 3 years then 6 hrs and this year zero. I don't know if that affects anything!


Our contracts are cancelled and new ones given out every January though. They did this to prevent people getting on permanent contracts.

Don't you understand they don't have to dismiss you they can just give you zero hours work every week from now on. You can't take them to court for giving you no work because it's in your contract that your guaranteed zero hours each week.

So what will you and your lawyer do then ?

sangie595

cuboid wrote: »

Well my lawyer through the GMB and ACCAS disagree with you, over 2 years continuous service on a zero hours contract gives you rights if dismissed. Go and double check your info. Obviously I would need to be available to work. I was initially on some sort of 15 hr contract then nothing for 3 years then 6 hrs and this year zero. I don't know if that affects anything!


Our contracts are cancelled and new ones given out every January though. They did this to prevent people getting on permanent contracts.

I do not need to double check my info. It's a disgraceful state that the GMB and ACAS have gotten to if they don't know basic employment law on zero hours contracts. Here's what the government, who make the laws, have to say about it https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/worker By the way, those pages are written up by ACAS officials.

Should have joined UNITE. Our lawyers know what they are doing. By the way, what is your claim? Because unions don't appoint lawyers to give legal advice until you have a claim, and a winnable one at that.

It doesn't matter whether they simply offer you no work or say that they are " dismissing" you. UNLESS you are "dismissed" for the reason of enforcing an exclusivity term, you canno, and I will reiterate that, cannot, claim unfair dismissal if you have a zero hours contract.