Can I claim anything from BT?

normanmark

Also add to the fact that BT offers this software for free to protect themselves then there really is no excuse for the blatent ignorism shown.

Steve_xx

normanmark wrote: »

But can you not recognise the fact that if the owners PC has the correct anti-virus software on then these 'rogue' diallers wouldnt even get a chance to infiltrate the owners PC

Yes, I think we recognose that. But what we are tring to point out is that in the first instance, not everyone is pc savvy enough to know that there might potentially be this problem.

All very well throwing what BT are required to do by government licence (to be honest it makes me laugh, people want BT as a monopoly when it suits them, but different story for a different day) but If the owner of the PC had various precautions sorted on their PC then fair enough its something that should be investigated, However that isnt the case.

If BT are required to act by law, then act they must. I'm unsure what exactly you are referring to with the BT "monopoly" thing? I don;t see what BT's market position has to do with this discussion.

If someone takes money out of your wallet without your mermission, then it is regarded as theft. In this instance your wallet has effectively been raided from afar, it is still theft.

I refer to my point on leaving a door unlocked & then trying to claim theft on the insurance. It wouldnt happen, i dont see any difference in this case. Just that somethings happened & consumers dont want to accept responsibility for not having the precautions in place.

It is different. We all know it is different. Leaving your door open is gross negligence. Switching your pc on and not understanding that somebody out in the ether can hijack it is not always understood by everyone in the first instance.

normanmark

Leaving your pc unsecured to trojan virus attacks is gross negligence, it might not seem as big as leaving your door open but its one of the most basic & first things people are advised to do on owning a PC or connecting to the internet at least.

Again, peoples ignorance to this even if they claim they're not PC savvy is not the responsibility of the service provider. Steve you're just cant seem to understand that someone not being PC savvy is the same as being ignorant to security when surfing online.

Steve_xx

normanmark wrote: »

Leaving your pc unsecured to trojan virus attacks is gross negligence, it might not seem as big as leaving your door open but its one of the most basic & first things people are advised to do on owning a PC or connecting to the internet at least.

Again, peoples ignorance to this even if they claim they're not PC savvy is not the responsibility of the service provider. Steve you're just cant seem to understand that someone not being PC savvy is the same as being ignorant to security when surfing online.

I think Wantmemoney in Post No 30 has advised us that BT do have a responsibility to us all.

I understand absolutely what you say when you state that someone maybe ignorant regarding the security of their pc. Just because they are ignorant of the security issues should not automatically make them liable. We are all ignorant about everything until we are taught. If we don't realise that there's a problem in the first place then why should we be penalised for not knowing?

normanmark

BT have a responsiblity to provide telephony services in this country residential & through telephone boxes. They dont have a responsibility to foot the bill for peoples ignorance towards pc security.

We are all ignorant about everything until we are taught. If we don't realise that there's a problem in the first place then why should we be penalised for not knowing?

Thats a dangerous way to live. If i go ahead with anything i make myself aware of what i'm getting myself into & possible pitfalls and also make sure i'm as informed as possible. But if they can connect to the internet then its not too difficult to install software on there to protect themselves

Steve_xx

normanmark wrote: »

BT have a responsiblity to provide telephony services in this country residential & through telephone boxes. They dont have a responsibility to foot the bill for peoples ignorance towards pc security.



Thats a dangerous way to live. If i go ahead with anything i make myself aware of what i'm getting myself into & possible pitfalls and also make sure i'm as informed as possible. But if they can connect to the internet then its not too difficult to install software on there to protect themselves

BT have a responsibility, as has been pointed out, to ensure that their billing systems are not involved in fraudulent activity. Therefore, if BT had prevented fraudulent activity on its billing platform, then it would not be possible for the scam to come to fruition in the first place.

wantmemoney

Steve_xx wrote:

BT have a responsibility, as has been pointed out, to ensure that their billing systems are not involved in fraudulent activity. Therefore, if BT had prevented fraudulent activity on its billing platform, then it would not be possible for the scam to come to fruition in the first place.

absolutely agree. the fraud succeeded because BT insisted the thieves were sent the money. the fraud continued because the regulators refused to pull the plug. blaming the victims because of lack of protection was a red herring. a smoke screen. a lie.

In 2004 20% of all dialler related complaints recieved by BT concerned the following companies and numbers. They had all been under Icstis investigation from 1st Jan 2004 onwards. Despite the tens of thousands of complaints BT were still billing for them in August 2004.

The companies were all supplied with premium rate numbers supplied by Telecom One. They were all set up by the same group. One of those responsible was a director of Telecom One in 1997.

You can all come to your own conclusion

Amara Amichi 2000 SL................0909 967 7600 to 0909 967 9299 = 1700
Amara Amichi 2000 SL................0909 967 9608 to 0909 967 9907 = 300
Icstis=.............................Jorge de la Riva..... C ter 27 Bajo Iz,Palma De Mallorca,Spain
Spanish Companies House=..M* De M*.............Can Puigdorfila 2,1-B-07001 Palma De Mallorca,Spain

Inversion Zarnoza SL...................0909 967 7600 to 0909 967 8099 = 500
supplied by Amara Amichi 2000 SL
Icstis=.............................C/ Murillo 15, Apt 13, Nova Sta Ponsa, 07180, Spain
here=..C/ CAN PUIGDORFILA, 2 1º B, PALMA DE MALLORCA, BALEARES, 07001

Cala De Plata SL........................0909 967 8100 to 0909 967 8599 = 500
supplied by Amara Amichi 2000 SL
Icstis=....Sussana Heinkel, [EMAIL="susanna@bingos.com"]susanna@bingos.com[/EMAIL], Passeig de l'arbreda 15, Llucmajor, Mallorca, 07609, Spain
Spanish Companies House=..M* De M*.......Can Puigdorfila 2,1-B-07001 Palma De Mallorca,Spain

Mesa rotation SL.......................0909 967 8600 to 0909 967 9099 = 500
supplied by Amara Amichi 2000 SL
Icstis=....Celia Constante, Can Puigdorfila 2,1-B-07001 Palma De Mallorca,Spain
Spanish Companies House=..M* De M*.......Can Puigdorfila 2,1-B-07001 Palma De Mallorca,Spain

Middleton holdings ltd.................0909 967 9100 to 0909 967 9299 = 200
Middleton holdings ltd.................0909 967 9608 to 0909 967 9907 = 300
supplied by Amara Amichi 2000 SL
Icstis=....c/o Amara Amichi, C ter 27 Bajo Iz, Palma De Mallorca, Spain

Premium Media Communications......0909 967 2808 to 0909 967 2808 = 1
Premium Media Communications......0909 967 2995 to 0909 967 2999 = 5
Premium Media Communications......0909 967 3654 to 0909 967 3953 = 300
Icstis=...E* D*, 0034 6618 3999, Cl. Del Ter 27 Bajos Izqueirda, 07009 Poligono Son Fuster, Palma De Mallorca, C.I.F: B-57161366, Spain

Quizir SL..................................0909 967 3544 to 0909 967 3578 = 35
Quizir SL..................................0909 967 3579 to 0909 967 3598 = 20
Quizir SL..................................0909 967 5000 to 0909 967 5099 = 100
Quizir SL..................................0909 967 6060 to 0909 967 6459 = 400
Quizir SL..................................0909 967 7100 to 0909 967 7599 = 500
Icstis=.............................Jose Balle. ......Can Puigdorfila 2,1-B-07001 Palma De Mallorca,Spain
Spanish Companies House=..M* De M*.......Can Puigdorfila 2,1-B-07001 Palma De Mallorca,Spain

Telecolux SL............................0909 967 3217 to 0909 967 3241 = 25
Icstis=.......................M* S* P*, c/o Ter 27 Bajos Izda, 07009, Palma de Mallorca, Spain
Jokomo Media SL.........................0909 967 3242 to 0909 967 3261 = 20
Jokomo Media SL.........................0909 967 0019 to 0909 967 0029 = 11
Jokomo Media SL.........................0909 967 0046 to 0909 967 0055 = 10
Jokomo Media SL.........................0909 967 0582 to 0909 967 0601 = 10
Jokomo Media SL.........................0909 967 2830 to 0909 967 2849 = 20
Jokomo Media SL.........................0909 967 2942 to 0909 967 2966 = 25
Icstis=.............................0034 696 953 685, c/o Ter 27 Bajos Izda, 07009, Palma de Mallorca, Spain

Ibero Latino De Telecomuniccaciones..0909 967 3002 to 0909 967 3006 = 5
Icstis=....0034 971 906 906, Gremi Boters 42, Nave2, 07009 Poligono Son Castello, Palma De Mallorca, C.I.F: A-57094708, Spain

gt94sss2

Steve_xx wrote: »

I think Wantmemoney in Post No 30 has advised us that BT do have a responsibility to us all.

You may be better off taking much of what Wantmemoney says with a pinch of salt.. from his/her other posts they seem to be able to take a little bit of information and then convolute it to fit their own anti-BT agenda..

BT has previously tried to bar premium rate numbers that it thought might be used by online diallers etc - only to face legal action from other telcos and the operators of those numbers as it exceeded its powers..

Regards
Sunil

normanmark

gt94sss2 wrote: »

You may be better off taking much of what Wantmemoney says with a pinch of salt.. from his/her other posts they seem to be able to take a little bit of information and then convolute it to fit their own anti-BT agenda..

I'm guessing they've been stung in the past for something like this.

Because their previous post here is something they've just copy & pasted from the last year or so posts since they joined.

One Example

wantmemoney

gt94sss2 wrote:

You may be better off taking much of what Wantmemoney says with a pinch of salt..

lets not get personal idiot and make sure that's all you pinch.

gt94sss2 wrote:

BT has previously tried to bar premium rate numbers that it thought might be used by online diallers etc - only to face legal action from other telcos and the operators of those numbers as it exceeded its powers..

they were Opera Telecom numbers and BT never gave a clear reason for backing down but saying that it would have strange them being allowed to bar the Opera numbers while at the same time being allowed to bill for their own Redstone numbers that were programmed into illegal diallers.

gt94sss2 wrote:

from his/her other posts they seem to be able to take a little bit of information and then convolute it to fit their own anti-BT agenda

No! you are the one with the BT agenda. an agenda to protect BT from criticism.

my agenda is against a self regulating telecom market place where all consumer/criminal laws that should be protecting the public have been kicked into the long grass.