Private ticket for leased vehicle

MattE84

Hi Folks. I need some advice that I haven't been able to track down on the forum, although I'm sure the question has been asked before at some point.


I'm lucky enough to have use of a company car but have been issued with a parking ticket from a private firm that I am attempting to appeal. My problem is that the policy of the lease company that provides the vehicle is to pay parking tickets immediately and deduct the value plus an admin fee from my salary. Here's the story so far: I appealed the ticket with the firm who issued it. They replied to my letter but ignored the points of my appeal and refused to issue the required code for me to escalate my appeal to POPLA. I wrote to POPLA anyway asking that they take on the appeal and address my complaints about the parking firm's conduct in ignoring the points in my letter of appeal. POPLA wrote back to tell me that I have no right of appeal with them because the ticket has already been paid.


So the question is: where do I go next? I feel that the lease company has undermined my right of appeal through their actions and policy and that the parking firm and POPLA have not conducted themselves properly in their failure to address the points in my appeal. Any advice on how to proceed would be very welcome.

Quentin

You need to train your sights in the lease company/your employer now

StaffsSW

The lease company should have transferred liability on this - there is a Memorandum of Understanding between the BVRLA and the BPA (who are affiliated with POPLA). - http://www.bvrla.co.uk/news/new-agreement-private-parking-notices

Also check the lease wording on the agreement you have. Somewhere will be a "statement of liability" - basically saying that you are responsible for speeding fines and road offences. Many of these do not specifically state private parking charges, and BVRLA did issue guidance earlier this year to lease companies to ensure that these were specifically mentioned. Take it up with your lease company in the first instance, but BVRLA do have an arbitration panel to work through issues like this - http://www.bvrla.co.uk/advice/consumer-advice

The_Slithy_Tove

Post up the exact wording of the lease company's policy as it relates to such matters. Also what does you employment contract and/or company car agreement with your company say about salary deductions?

In pursuing this, you'll also have to consider what kind of relationship you have with your employer, and how far you dare push this.

MattE84

Thanks for all of the advice. The exact wording of the policy is below:

'Fines and offences
Any fine or penalty charge incurred by you as a result of traffic, parking or congestion charge offence is your responsibility, regardless of which vehicle you’re using.

In the event of a fine or penalty charge, Arval will pay the fine or penalty charge immediately to avoid it escalating.
They’ll notify you by email of the details of the fine or penalty charge.
The cost, together with an administration fee of £10, will be deducted from your salary through payroll.
Queries on salary deductions should be made to Arval, who hold copies of the original documentation, which can be provided to substantiate any fine or penalty charge.
You should conduct any further correspondence directly with the issuing authority. If you’re successful in challenging the fine or penalty fine, the cost and the administration fee will be refunded through payroll.
If you receive points on your driving licence, you’ll need to update your driver declaration form.'

Redx

so only mention of penalties and fines , not private parking charges (an important difference)

ARVAL have form for this so put their name into the forum search box and see the other threads about similar issues

then you need to be up for a fight and reporting arval to the BVRLA etc , you wont be the first or the last put into this position

if ARVAL cannot update their wording nor follow the correct procedures on naming the lessee then that is their problem , not yours

StaffsSW

Its been an issue in the industry for quite some time - http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/6/6/fleets-call-for-fairer-fines-handling-service-from-leasing-companies/52612/

Speaking as an insider, there is some corporate pressure to deal with "fines" (and I use the term generically as most are treated the same as local authority, congestion/dart/toll charges and also speeding/S172 requests) in the most efficient and cost effective way as possible. We receive around 10,000 private parking per year, I wish I could challenge every one, but instead I only get to deal with the ones where the PPC refuse to transfer.
I do however help our customers challenge them.

Paying them makes the problem go away, but can cause more problems further down the line. The company I work for do transfer liability on private parking charges, and if they are subsequently cancelled, we also refund the admin fee.
We do pay the majority of local authority charges though, mainly because we work on a contractual lease basis, rather than with a hire agreement. The Road Traffic act has strict requirements as to what a hire agreement is and what it should contain, but our supply terms do not comply with that.

On the other hand, because of the unique/incompetent/rushed way that Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 was cobbled together, we can also use that argument to our advantage in order to pass liability to our customers.



As above, search this forum for Arval - put up enough of a fight, and they will crack based on what others have experienced.

Marktheshark

They could just follow THE LAW
And not make up their own laws.

POFA makes it very clear who has liability for a parking charge.
The keeper as listed on the v5 unless they discharge that liability by naming the driver.

Anything else is setting themselves up for a CCJ.

StaffsSW

Marktheshark wrote: »

The keeper as listed on the v5 unless they discharge that liability by naming the driver.

Not quite - according to POFA - “keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;


There is a gulf of a difference between Keeper and Registered Keeper - and a rather helpful chap called Jonathan Kirk QC ( some may have heard of him...) successfully argued that under the subsection 43C(7) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 definition, the keeper is someone who keeps the vehicle.

Regina (House of Cars) -v- Derby Car and Van Contracts Limited [2012] refers...

catfunt

Another point is that by paying the charge and deducting from your salary, they are denying you your lawful right to appeal the charge.

THis is a good point to robustly make to your employer.

Once the PPC have your money, you ain't getting it back unless you issue a small claim and take them to court.

As others have said, Arval have form for this and despite being challenged on this on several occasions, they are simply not learning.
(Or they are owned or part-owned by a PPC....)

I (or any members of my family) will never use Arval for this reason.

MattE84

Thanks again for all of the advice. I've been exchanging emails with Arval to no avail. They are repeatedly issuing responses that fail to address the points/questions that I have raise which is very frustrating. I'm going to try once more but failing that I will take it up with my employer via the HR department.