Support to find underlying fault Ford C Max

walshy252_2

Hi all,

My girlfriend has a 2005 plate Ford C Max, very low mileage (16k) due to first owner being elderly, full service history and well maintained. 10 days ago she heard a loud screeching sound coming from the engine and managed to get it home, next day engine cut out and would not restart. RAC recovered the car and diagnosed a problem with the starter motor which had now blown.

Car recovered to a local garage (RAC recommended) who agreed starter motor is the issue but also needs a new power cable. Total work including labour £355 (a little steep I thought but thats by the by). The work took 4 days to complete due to parts availability. Car drives home fine after collection in the evening but next morning, same problem... RAC recover again and diagnose starter motor and power cable blown out once more. After some to do with the garage the mechanic reluctantly accepts liability for the blown parts on the basis he clearly did not fix the actual problem. Agrees to replace parts under warranty and continue to look for the fault.

Now here is our problem, this was now 5 days ago, and still no fault found. He has disconnected new starter motor and using a test light which seems to be working fine. He claims to have got it to fault once, but not for long enough to diagnose the issue. Without finding the fault he doesn't want to release the car and have to accept liability for blown parts again (understandable) however my girlfriend is currently paying £30 in taxis per day to get to work which is unsustainable until the garage happens to come across the fault.

So what is reasonable here? How long should the garage continue to test before trying alternative means (not sure what these might be)? For the car experts among you, any suggestions on what the fault could be?

We have suggested that the garage quote us for replacement of all parts in the circuit (to my knowledge this is starter motor, power cable which have both been done, plus ignition switch and relay). Garage doesn't want to just throw parts at it which is understandable, but on the basis the two parts left are relatively inexpensive it seems like an acceptable option.

Of course we could take it to another garage but RAC wont recover it again on the basis they have taken it to a suitable location. So we would bare the recovery costs plus lose warranty/goodwill from this garage and have to start again..

Thoughts and advice appreciated!

arcon5

Your options are as follows:

Continue waiting

Take car elsewhere

Insist they replace the components you say and you take responsibility if it does it again



Have they though checked flywheel? They are known to destroy starters when they develop issues

Geodark

Sounds remarkably like a dodgy ignition switch or a short in the wiring somewhere. Might be worth getting a proper auto electrician to have a look at it (but that could work out expensive)

Strider590

The starter solenoid is a good place place to start, these can stick and it sounds like the starter is continuing to run after the engine has started.

Most modern cars automatically turn off the starter once the engine kicks into life (because idiots who don't know how to start a car), so the ignition switch is highly unlikely to be the issue.
I don't know if the solenoid is built into the starter on this car though........ If it is, then it will have been replaced already and the issue could be that the car isn't detecting the engine running and is actually not cutting out the starter.

Walshy252

RAC and garage both agreed that the screeching noise was the starter motor. I struggled to understand how the starter motor could still be engaged during a journey as logically I thought it would cut out after ignition. Both cut outs have been preceded by the noise but have been a good while after the engine starts up, which makes me think it isn't an ignition problem also

Strider590

Is it a diesel? I wonder if it could be a defective DMF......... These tend to break apart and I don't see how they could avoid interfering with the starter.

pappa_golf

you have a defective ign switch , when the start position/spring is released the contact that powers the solenoid which is built onto the starter motor is still allowing voltage to pass ,

as the solenoid trips , it throws a linkage on the pre engaged starter motor , which 1) moves the gear on the starter into position and 2) allows a high currant to pass thru the starter motor cable to power the motor

due to the motor running continuously the cable will not have "blown" as such , it will have melted the insulation thru getting hot


had this have been the first starter to fail , I would have said the origional solenoid had mechanicly failed , but as this is a new starter , then I think the problem is further back


the test or fault finding would be to connect a test lamp to the solenoid wire , start the car and see if voltage was there after the key is released

Walshy252

Thanks guys

Got the RAC to recover again today and take to a new garage on the basis the one they originally recommended has not provided a good service.

Have taken to an electrical specialist for further diagnosis. Interestingly they are adamant it is not an ignition issue

Marktheshark

Could be the relay in the under engine fuse box.

pappa_golf

Walshy252 wrote: »

Thanks guys

Got the RAC to recover again today and take to a new garage on the basis the one they originally recommended has not provided a good service.

Have taken to an electrical specialist for further diagnosis. Interestingly they are adamant it is not an ignition issue

correct its not an ignition issue , its a ignition SWITCH issue (I bet)

Strider590

Walshy252 wrote: »

Thanks guys

Got the RAC to recover again today and take to a new garage on the basis the one they originally recommended has not provided a good service.

Have taken to an electrical specialist for further diagnosis. Interestingly they are adamant it is not an ignition issue

They'll undoubtedly assume that the driver has tried to start an already running engine.