Employer training- repayment terms

lando71

Hi there,


So I am near the end of my BA hons degree, very luckily funded by my employer (3 years).


I first started this and was on a low wage as a result of me still 'studying' or 'training' and my wage was around what it should be less my study costs. I took a promotion earlier this year (with extra responsibilities) and am only now on a wage that reflects my job/responsibilities.


I finish my degree at Christmas (now November). My employer has just sent me a letter outlining the costs and scale of which I will pay this back if I leave and asked me to sign it.


However, whilst I do not intend to leave, they have stipulated that I will still have to repay a part of the fees up to 3 years. At no point did I expect to have to stay for 3 years, I expected it to be 2 years. I do not want to sign this agreement, do I have to, to keep my job?


I do not want to leave my job but I also do not want to commit to 3 years as it is much longer than I expected to fully commit to. Also I do not like the fact that they know they can treat me however and keep my wage the same for the next 3 years, as I cannot leave.


Any advice on this would be appreciated? Please no opinions from people who think I owe my employer the world as I work my !!! off every day!!!

sangie595

Ermm - you don't get to dictate what people tell you. That is the point of asking for advice. Not everyone will agree with you.

If you have not yet signed ANY training agreement and this is the first time you have had one, then the employer cannot actually reclaim a penny unless you sign it. You are in a position to negotiate - they have screwed up massively by not having it signed from the start - so you can ask for what you want. Whether they agree, and what they might do about it if you refuse the terms or refuse to sign, well nobody here can predict that because we don't know the employer.

I am not even sure, on technical grounds, whether a retrospective agreement can be enforced - it's something I haven't dealt with before so I will have to check on that.

I don't think that a three year term for three years training is actually at all unreasonable - that is exactly what my employer does, and my employer is very good. I have had two postgraduate degrees funded by them and in both cases the terms were on the same length of time as the length of the degree.

There is nothing at all to say that you "cannot leave" - you can leave at any time but you would be expected to repay a proportion of the fees that the employer has permitted you as an investment in you. They didn't have to make that investment, and to be honest, you are very lucky because few employers are making that kind of investment these days. I don't particularly see why you think you are owed something just because you work hard every day. You are expected to work hard every day. That is the nature of employment.

So it is up to you. Sign or not. Negotiate or not. The employer has erred in not ensuring you were already signed up. But in the end, unless you sign or sign something they are happy with, I wouldn't hold my breath on your having any future with this company, and your reference may not be as glowing as you might hope.

sangie595

lando71 wrote: »

Hi there,


So I am near the end of my BA hons degree, very luckily funded by my employer (3 years).


I first started this and was on a low wage as a result of me still 'studying' or 'training' and my wage was around what it should be less my study costs. I took a promotion earlier this year (with extra responsibilities) and am only now on a wage that reflects my job/responsibilities.


I finish my degree at Christmas (now November). My employer has just sent me a letter outlining the costs and scale of which I will pay this back if I leave and asked me to sign it.


However, whilst I do not intend to leave, they have stipulated that I will still have to repay a part of the fees up to 3 years. At no point did I expect to have to stay for 3 years, I expected it to be 2 years. I do not want to sign this agreement, do I have to, to keep my job?


I do not want to leave my job but I also do not want to commit to 3 years as it is much longer than I expected to fully commit to. Also I do not like the fact that they know they can treat me however and keep my wage the same for the next 3 years, as I cannot leave.


Any advice on this would be appreciated? Please no opinions from people who think I owe my employer the world as I work my !!! off every day!!!

I forgot to quote your post. Sorry!

steampowered

Hi, this is quite common, although 3 years does sound like longer than usual.

Why did you expect to have to stay to 2 years rather than 3 years? Do you have that in writing?

Scorpio33

It is normal for employers to expect you to stay for a period of time after they have paid for training costs.


However, in my experience, this period of time is usually a year. Certainly I have never seen 3 years mentioned.


The only thing you can do is speak to the employer.


Firstly check your contract or any general guidelines over this type of training and repayment terms if you leave. The chances are you should have been aware of the 3 years when you commenced training. However, if you can't find anything, you can say to the employer that you were not aware of the 3 year clause when you started the training.


Secondly, communicate to your employer and state that you feel that 3 years lock in is a bit harsh and would they communicate reduced time period. Offer 1 year lock in, then hope they agree to the 2 year lock in.


Good luck!

Undervalued

If I read the OP correctly he has been employed for almost three years so at least has protection against unfair dismissal?

If so then it could be argued that the best thing to do is to ignore the letter and see what happens? Ultimately that is a judgement call for his particular work situation rather simply looking at the legal position.

What they cannot do is lawfully reclaim training costs without a specific agreement in place, a general policy etc is not sufficient.
Also, regardless of any agreement, a court would only enforce a reasonable and proportionate amount and three years does seem on the long side.

So, the options are to agree, attempt to negotiate, ignore and see what happens or flatly refuse. Difficult.

sangie595

Scorpio33 wrote: »

It is normal for employers to expect you to stay for a period of time after they have paid for training costs.


However, in my experience, this period of time is usually a year. Certainly I have never seen 3 years mentioned.


The only thing you can do is speak to the employer.


Firstly check your contract or any general guidelines over this type of training and repayment terms if you leave. The chances are you should have been aware of the 3 years when you commenced training. However, if you can't find anything, you can say to the employer that you were not aware of the 3 year clause when you started the training.


Secondly, communicate to your employer and state that you feel that 3 years lock in is a bit harsh and would they communicate reduced time period. Offer 1 year lock in, then hope they agree to the 2 year lock in.


Good luck!

I think, on the other side of this, that paying for three years training is also very unusual, and I certainly don't ever recall one year being the norm. Unless the length of the training was one year.

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

If I read the OP correctly he has been employed for almost three years so at least has protection against unfair dismissal?

If so then it could be argued that the best thing to do is to ignore the letter and see what happens? Ultimately that is a judgement call for his particular work situation rather simply looking at the legal position.

What they cannot do is lawfully reclaim training costs without a specific agreement in place, a general policy etc is not sufficient.
Also, regardless of any agreement, a court would only enforce a reasonable and proportionate amount and three years does seem on the long side.

So, the options are to agree, attempt to negotiate, ignore and see what happens or flatly refuse. Difficult.

I would broadly agree, although in the public sector the term being the same length as the course is common. So I am not convinced about the three years being unreasonable. Normally, the way it would work is that the first year wouldn't have any part to repay after two years, but toy would still owe a small amount for the second year, and more for the third.

However, I think the OP does just need to keep in mind all the things that an employer can do. Unfair dismissal is easy to avoid. Finding a fair dismissal is easy. Nobody ever thinks their employer can find a reason. They can. And then there's the no pay rises. The worst jobs. The vague references that make you sound like an employee nobody would want. No career progression. It all depends on what kind of employer they have. But "pay back" is always possible.

Undervalued

sangie595 wrote: »

I would broadly agree, although in the public sector the term being the same length as the course is common. So I am not convinced about the three years being unreasonable. Normally, the way it would work is that the first year wouldn't have any part to repay after two years, but toy would still owe a small amount for the second year, and more for the third.

However, I think the OP does just need to keep in mind all the things that an employer can do. Unfair dismissal is easy to avoid. Finding a fair dismissal is easy. Nobody ever thinks their employer can find a reason. They can. And then there's the no pay rises. The worst jobs. The vague references that make you sound like an employee nobody would want. No career progression. It all depends on what kind of employer they have. But "pay back" is always possible.

I agree.

That is why I said

Ultimately that is a judgement call for his particular work situation rather simply looking at the legal position.

But perhaps I should have spelt it out rather more.

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

I agree.

That is why I said



But perhaps I should have spelt it out rather more.

Sorry, I wasn't criticising your advice. I was just emphasising the point we both made originally - the strictly legal position may not be the only, or even the major, consideration here. It wouldn't be hard to live to regret ones position on this matter, and the employer wouldn't have to do very much to achieve that.

kingfisherblue

Three years doesn't seem unreasonable to me, especially as the employer has paid for three years of tuition fees. They presumably expected to see something positive from you as a result of paying for your degree, rather than you wanting to move jobs soon after. However, if there was no signed agreement in force before you began the course, it will be difficult for the employer to enforce repayment.

As others have said, though, there is nothing to stop your current employer giving you a very brief reference, or no reference at all. Would another employer want to give you a chance if they heard along the grapevine that you moved on so quickly?