Empty house since parent died this week

Yorkshireman99

mumps wrote: »

We informed the bank immediately and then had problems as refunds of things like gas, electric, council tax, were paid as a cheque in her name and she had no active account so problems cashing the cheques. She also had a pension payment due from her late husband's company pension. It was from another country and the payment didn't go through. We really wished we had waited a week or two.

The bank should have opened an executor's account allow payments in and out by the executors. That is the standard way of doing things.

Yorkshireman99

TheGardener wrote: »

wow - all that for a week or so delay :eek: In our circumstances it was the best policy - having passed away over Christmas the banks we not even open (neither was anyone else for that matter including all the other people we had to tell) The family were not in a position - particular at that time of year - to make some of the essential payments - they were not all utilities - and all legitimate payments that would have to have been made anyway so it was more straight forward for them to be paid then rather than wait several weeks (or several months if solicitors had done it) until after probate.
I did not for a moment suggest that accounts should be allowed to function for months - that would be fraud if nothing else I suspect! I said - a couple of weeks or so. Lordy - if it all happened again, sorry but I still wouldn't be rushing to the bank first thing the following morning...
The payments coming in were from business interests - the pension people were told as soon as it was possible to tell them.
As mumps said - getting repayments into another account was a huge issues, they all wanted to pay back into the deceased's account.
Once we were organised, we told the bank and followed the correct procedure with the undertakers and bank for the settlement of funeral expenses once the account was suspended.
I do not believe for a moment we acted irresponsibly.

I accept that you acted out of lack of knowledge but not following the rules in future might cause you unexpected grief. Upon death all routine payments out should suspended. In your case you were fortunate but in different circumstances you could have ended up being personally liable for all sorts of costs. The executors have no need to dig into their own pockets to pay for the utilities because they well understand the need to wait. Opening an executors account wit the bank where the deceased' account was held is normal procedure. Banks have specialist staff who should available by phone to help executors deal with the situations you describe.

Tuesday_Tenor

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

The bank should have opened an executor's account allow payments in and out by the executors. That is the standard way of doing things.

But remember that (apart from funeral expenses to Funeral Directors), you can't actually pay OUT of the executors account until you have the grant of probate, which takes a few weeks at least.

So there is always an interim period of needing to pay a few things (probate fee etc) before the estate funds are accessible. Which I've always paid personally and later claimed back from the estate. But someone else may not be in a position to do this.

I've been an executor twice. I've always informed banks and untilities immediately after the death. I personally think this is both correct and the most practical, in term of minimising future hassle. But to some extent the first week or so can be a bit of a muddle anyway, with things to straighten out later, whatever you do. I don't think it's a period about which to be too pedantic.

The exceptions don't change the general rule, though.

Yorkshireman99

Tuesday_Tenor wrote: »

But remember that (apart from funeral expenses to Funeral Directors), you can't actually pay OUT of the executors account until you have the grant of probate, which takes a few weeks at least.

So there is always an interim period of needing to pay a few things (probate fee etc) before the estate funds are accessible. Which I've always paid personally and later claimed back from the estate. But someone else may not be in a position to do this.

I've been an executor twice. I've always informed banks and untilities immediately after the death. I personally think this is both correct and the most practical, in term of minimising future hassle. But to some extent the first week or so can be a bit of a muddle anyway, with things to straighten out later, whatever you do. I don't think it's a period about which to be too pedantic.

The exceptions don't change the general rule, though.

The bank should pay the probate fee if asked as well as the funeral costs. Everyone else just has to wait!

TheGardener

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Opening an executors account wit the bank where the deceased' account was held is normal procedure. Banks have specialist staff who should available by phone to help executors deal with the situations you describe.

My faith in bank staff advice and knowledge in unusual circumstances is zero. Not one of the banks involved (there were 3 - would that have meant 3 executors accounts?) offered any advice or guidance about executors accounts. Once we have letters of administration - all acted in almost unseemly haste in offloading every penny - followed quickly by emailing/writing to us to offer their services touting for our business....We are not fools and we followed the government website advice. As for others just having to wait - not all the creditors were utilities, there were individuals relying on the funds and we were not about to tell them to 'wait a month or two'

I accept we may not have done this the way a solicitor may have but we did it in a way that suited us, was legal and gave the best results in the end for all concerned.

Yorkshireman99

TheGardener wrote: »

My faith in bank staff advice and knowledge in unusual circumstances is zero. Not one of the banks involved (there were 3 - would that have meant 3 executors accounts?) offered any advice or guidance about executors accounts. Once we have letters of administration - all acted in almost unseemly haste in offloading every penny - followed quickly by emailing/writing to us to offer their services touting for our business....We are not fools and we followed the government website advice. As for others just having to wait - not all the creditors were utilities, there were individuals relying on the funds and we were not about to tell them to 'wait a month or two'

I accept we may not have done this the way a solicitor may have but we did it in a way that suited us, was legal and gave the best results in the end for all concerned.

You are missing the point. Executorship is a position of trust and they are not allowed to do as they please. Executors are legally obliged to treat all creditors in an even handed manner and not to favour some over others. With the exception of the funeral expenses executors are in breach of their obligations as trustees if they don't do this. In your case there were sufficient liquid funds but in many cases there are not. The problem with the banks is you need to ask about their bereavement department and make it plain you do not want them touting for business.

mumps

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

The bank should have opened an executor's account allow payments in and out by the executors. That is the standard way of doing things.

We weren't offered that unfortunately. I'm not sure if it would have helped with the oberseas payment which was quite difficult to deal with. We didn't have any issues about paying people, there was plenty of money to pay anything outstanding and we could afford to pay anyway. The problem was money coming back in.

Yorkshireman99

mumps wrote: »

We weren't offered that unfortunately. I'm not sure if it would have helped with the oberseas payment which was quite difficult to deal with. We didn't have any issues about paying people, there was plenty of money to pay anything outstanding and we could afford to pay anyway. The problem was money coming back in.

From my own experience, and from what I have heard on here, the problem is that the front line staff in the branches are poorly trained. All the banks I have dealt with have centrally based staff who specialize in dealing withe bereaved customers. Anyone faced with the problem should stand their ground and ask to speak to them.

securityguy

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

You are missing the point. Executorship is a position of trust and they are not allowed to do as they please. Executors are legally obliged to treat all creditors in an even handed manner and not to favour some over others..

There are plenty of reasonable scenarios in which executors don't know of the death, or can't do anything about it, or don't themselves know that they are executors, for days or even weeks after a death. I'm an executor for an elderly relative with a complex estate whom I'm perfectly happy to act for. The other executors live abroad, and I would not (and my travel insurance company appears to feel the same) return from a holiday were they to die while I was abroad. In that scenario, it could be some considerable time before anyone does anything about assuming an executorship. The idea that executors need to leap into action the moment the death is announced is simply not realistic.

TheGardener

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

You are missing the point. Executorship is a position of trust and they are not allowed to do as they please.

I don't believe I am missing any points - I am saying we managed the affairs of an intestate family member in a way that worked well for us. We informed ourselves of what was required using the governments advice and proceeded to deal with the estate in what I believe was a fair, legal, reasonable and pragmatic way. There was no suggestion of anyone 'doing as they pleased' On the contrary - we took our roles very seriously. The complications of it all happening during the Christmas shut down (from waiting for the coroner onwards) was obviously a factor in the speed in which everyone could be informed. Ironically, I actually found the call centre staff of the utility companies better informed than anyone we initially spoke to at the bank. No access was offered to any 'special' Bereavement department and the documentation they wanted was required to be presented at the local branches - not a head office.
If what we did was in anyway illegal then I'm sorry I made the suggestion but am not convinced we did anything wrong.