Second Name on Bank Account

Pashmina

A friend on ESA has been told that there is information suggesting he has too much money in bank and building society account, and that his ESA might have to be cut. He has been asked to supply bank/building account records going back over four years. He has named the bank and building society he uses.

He has not named a further bank account where he is the second name, not even realising that this might be an issue. He gains no benefit whatsoever from this account, but he is supporting the main account holder who has dementia, and he oversees their weekly outgoings and incomings, and occasionally sets up or cancels payments for utilities etc. His other - his own accounts - stand at about £6,200. He has been told he is about £200.00 over the limit on these accounts, and that his benefits will probably have to be cut by a £1.00 or so a week.. The account where he is the second name usually stands at around 15K and typicaly earns around £400-£500 a year in interest. I am wondering if it is this interest which has shown up in a DWP search - because the interest on his own building society account is tiny and on his own current bank account it is zero. I am wondering whether ultimately he may find himself cut to the tune of half of this 15K account, unless he can demonstrate that his merely doing a civic duty here?

As a supplementary: I am unclear whether or not his limit should be treated as 6K anyway. He is 64 going on 65 and he was once offered a transfer onto pension credits. Given that he is entitled to pension credits, as far as I can make out his limit should be 10K not 6K before cutting, anyway?

lisa110rry

Pashmina, if it's exactly as you say, it would be immoral to consider the other person's assets to be your friend's. My sister-in-law has her name on her Mum's account to manage it for her in exactly the same way - she buys Mum's shopping and delivers it to her.

Surely Citizen's Advice could advise you/your friend?

NYM

If the DWP know of an account in his name and he fails to declare it, they may not accept that he has no claim on the money that's held in it.

pmlindyloo

Pashmina wrote: »

A friend on ESA has been told that there is information suggesting he has too much money in bank and building society account, and that his ESA might have to be cut. He has been asked to supply bank/building account records going back over four years. He has named the bank and building society he uses.

He has not named a further bank account where he is the second name, not even realising that this might be an issue. He gains no benefit whatsoever from this account, but he is supporting the main account holder who has dementia, and he oversees their weekly outgoings and incomings, and occasionally sets up or cancels payments for utilities etc. His other - his own accounts - stand at about £6,200. He has been told he is about £200.00 over the limit on these accounts, and that his benefits will probably have to be cut by a £1.00 or so a week.. The account where he is the second name usually stands at around 15K and typicaly earns around £400-£500 a year in interest. I am wondering if it is this interest which has shown up in a DWP search - because the interest on his own building society account is tiny and on his own current bank account it is zero. I am wondering whether ultimately he may find himself cut to the tune of half of this 15K account, unless he can demonstrate that his merely doing a civic duty here?

As a supplementary: I am unclear whether or not his limit should be treated as 6K anyway. He is 64 going on 65 and he was once offered a transfer onto pension credits. Given that he is entitled to pension credits, as far as I can make out his limit should be 10K not 6K before cutting, anyway?

First of all the capital limit for ESA is £16000 with £6000 being allowed aqnd anything in between deducted £1 for every £250/part of.

For Pension Credit there is no upper capital limit and the lower limit is £10000.

Your friend could put his details into the calculator on https://www.entitledto.co.uk to see if he would be better off claiming PC rather than ESA (CAB would do a benefit check for him also or AgeUK)

As regards the 'extra bank account' it is not clear whether he has now declared this?

Also, you say, he is a second name on this account. Is this correct or is it a joint account? Does he have power of attorney or is he an appointee - both of these would add weight to the fact that he has no beneficial interest in the account - see below

If it is second name only then I am not sure whether this would have shown up in any cross referencing (but not totally sure, hopefully someone could confirm)

If it has shown up and they are saying he has a beneficial interest then your friend would have to prove that he has no beneficial interest in the account. He would need to show evidence of the actual bank account statements showing that he has had no payments made to him or on behalf of himself - basically that the account is used only for the other account holder and all capital came from that person.

So depending on the answers to all of the above he may have a case for not having beneficial interest in any capital in this account.

If things become complicated then CAB/AgeUK would help with appealing any decision made to his detriment.

TELLIT01

What monies go into the second account, the one which you say he gains no benefit from? If it can be shown that any money going into that account comes from the person with dementia, and any money taken out is for support of that person there shouldn't be a problem. He should declare it though as a very different interpretation is likely to be put on that money if it isn't declared.

anmarj

Pashmina wrote: »

As a supplementary: I am unclear whether or not his limit should be treated as 6K anyway. He is 64 going on 65 and he was once offered a transfer onto pension credits. Given that he is entitled to pension credits, as far as I can make out his limit should be 10K not 6K before cutting, anyway?

The limit is relevant to the benefit that he is on, not what he could be on. You cannot get a mix of entitlement to suit

TELLIT01

Once he actually hits pension age at 65, or whatever the variant is for his DOB, he won't be able to claim ESA or IS. Pension & pension credits will be the only option.

midnight_express

If it is a joint account then it counts as his money for benefit purposes.

Pashmina

anmarj wrote: »

The limit is relevant to the benefit that he is on, not what he could be on. You cannot get a mix of entitlement to suit

It seems I am not allowed to use links, but I was going by a local government statement from Manchester:

"Total capital of £10,000 or less does not affect your benefit at all if you or your partner are above the qualifying age for State Pension Credit ('pension age')."

He is not in Manchester, but was just trawling the net for info. That (as I have only just realised) was about Housing Benefit and Council Tax, but it does suggest that there can be some flexibility in the system?

Pashmina

TELLIT01 wrote: »

What monies go into the second account, the one which you say he gains no benefit from? If it can be shown that any money going into that account comes from the person with dementia, and any money taken out is for support of that person there shouldn't be a problem. He should declare it though as a very different interpretation is likely to be put on that money if it isn't declared.

He has established that the bank has him registered as POA - Power of Attorney. There is ONE large payment to himself, but this went quickly in and out to pay for a major building works to a property owned by the person whose account he is POA on, and there is still documentation of this available.

Pashmina

midnight_express wrote: »

If it is a joint account then it counts as his money for benefit purposes.

But if he can show POA?