Euro car parks

makemesumdosh

i have received a penalty notice stating that cameras captured images of my car entering and leaving a car park managed by euro car parks.
my partner paid for 3 hrs car parking but the times say she entered and left the car park after 3hrs and 10 minutes.

on the letter I have received is 2 black and white images of my reg plate..

it also states no valid pay and display permit was purchased and this is in breach of the terms and conditions set out on the signage on the site.

whats my best option

Redx

it will be a Parking Charge Notice , not Penalty

BPA grace periods come into effect so use the BPA blue text template appeal , as keeper (not driver)

I hope the driver kept proof of purchase of the ticket ?

now please read and follow the NEWBIES sticky thread, same as well thousands of other members who have these parking notices (invoices)

makemesumdosh

Thanks for the advice, ticket was not kept

Redx

shame , that ticket was the drivers contract with the service provider , so should have been kept for up to 6 years , because the PPC has up to 6 years to issue a court claim (MCOL)

too many people throw them away early and so lose the advantage in these cases , so not keeping it could cost you dear

playing devils advocate - the 2 issues in this case are

1) was the 3 hours of parking paid for ? (if yes- prove it)

2) was the BPA grace times of up to 10 minutes prior to parking and over 10 minutes as time to leave adhered to ? , it seems yes is the answer to that so if all was correct then no NTK would have been issued

as it stands , they are alleging that 190 minutes of parking was NOT paid for , and are showing their proof by anpr photos, but the driver has no proof of payment due to not keeping the receipt

makemesumdosh

thanks for the advice.

all the parking charge notice shows is 2 images of the vehicle reg plate.

when I appeal can I ask for evidence that the fee was not paid, the wife paid for 3 hrs and displayed a valid ticket.
could I ask to see evidence that a ticket was not displayed in the windscreen.
surely if they do not provide this its there word against mine.

why should we keep parking tickets in the car just incase we may or may not get a ticket.

the wife had no idea she overstayed by 10 minutes

Redx

how can you ask for something that they say did not happen ?

when the driver bought a ticket , did the driver have to put in a VRM ?

the PPC would tally up the ticket buying and VRM against the ANPR

they have issued 2 anpr photos of entering and exiting
they have no proof that the driver bought a ticket , never mind displayed it - they would say that the onus is on the driver to prove that a ticket was bouight, which is why you have a paper ticket and also why you should keep it (I already explained this)

the paper ticket was the drivers proof that the contract was entered into and time was bought, which is why the paper receipt should be kept

had the driver bought a kettle at tescos , they would keep that paper receipt , wouldnt they ? (they would not throw it away after leaving the shop , in case they were accused of theft or needed to use the ticket under warranty

if this goes to court , yes you can ask for evidence , same as they can

they have evidence of entry and exit so that is beyond dispute
they have no evidence that a 3 hour ticket was bought and paid for

you have no evidence that a 3 hour ticket was bought and paid for

so why would a judge side with you ? on what grounds ? a non-existent paper ticket that the driver says was bought (yep, heard that one before)

as Judge Rinder would say , show me your evidence ? your PAPER ,

now with hindsight , you will be keeping paper contract receipts in the car, for say 3 to 6 months , just in case (like my wife has been doing for 3 years at asda for similar reasons)

yes it is their word against yours , but they have photos and maybe ticket machine computer records of VRM,s entered into any ticket machine , yours may not be one of them , it could be a typo , maybe the wrong VRM was used , maybe the driver just hit AA123BBB ? who knows

makemesumdosh

Thank you very much for all your advice.

having just spoken to the wife, she has informed me that she just paid for 3 hrs parking.
I know the car park which she used as I have used it before and it requires you to enter you reg plate.

she did not do this.

OOPS.

Redx

that explains it then and vindicates my theories above , it had to be something that simple, its also why the paid for piece of paper (ticket) is so important too

so their account is correct and its the drivers word against their systems , so you would have to get printouts of their logs and prove that the one with no VRM is the one where the driver paid for your car (an uphill battle)

so a difficult one to advise you , plus 2 potentially very costly errors by the driver , not inputting the VRM and also throwing the paper ticket away afterwards

Edna_Basher

With ECP Pay & Display car parks, inadequate signage may well be the key to a successful challenge. It's quite common for their signs not to include failure to enter correct VRM details on the list of breaches resulting in a PCN being issued.

The burden of proof rests with ECP; however their ANPR pictures of a vehicle entering and leaving a car park cannot in isolation prove that a P & D ticket was not purchased and displayed.

It would be useful for you or your wife to get some pictures of the car park signs to see exactly what terms and conditions ECP were seeking to impose.

Rather than rushing in with an initial challenge, I suggest that you wait until just before ECP's 28-day appeal deadline. Spend some time reading up on the advice on this Forum including why it is important to appeal as the vehicle's keeper without revealing who was driving.

ECP now seem to be scoring an "own goal" by sending a follow-up PCN marked as "Notice to Keeper" approx 15 days after sending their initial PCN.

Although ECP may have recently tightened up on the wording of their initial PCNs (to the point that POPLA will probably accept that they do comply with POFA), their follow-up "Notices to Keeper" do not comply. If ECP were to send you one of these, you could take advantage by challenging this non-compliant Notice to Keeper rather than the initial PCN - after all, ECP could not prove that the initial PCN had been delivered

Coupon-mad

Edna_Basher wrote: »

ECP now seem to be scoring an "own goal" by sending a follow-up PCN marked as "Notice to Keeper" approx 15 days after sending their initial PCN.

Although ECP may have recently tightened up on the wording of their initial PCNs (to the point that POPLA will probably accept that they do comply with POFA), their follow-up "Notices to Keeper" do not comply. If ECP were to send you one of these, you could take advantage by challenging this non-compliant Notice to Keeper rather than the initial PCN - after all, ECP could not prove that the initial PCN had been delivered

Are they still sending two letters, Edna Basher? I thought they'd stopped sending the 'NTK' now. Seen the new version 'PCN' and the wording is annoyingly good.

Edna_Basher

We received one of these follow-up ECP "Notices to Keeper" as recently as 6th October; this followed on from one of their new version initial PCNs - hopefully they're still shooting themselves in the foot by sending these second notices.