Council Housing Tenancy Help Please

Ci_bach

It's not usual to have a joint tenancy between parents and children.

Perhaps there is confusion between being a member of the household and being a joint tenant. Household member being the more likely description.

Seldom, if ever, would there a 3 party joint tenancy.

Adding or removing a party to the tenancy is done through the Courts. (property adjustment order). No Legal Aid for this.

A succession of tenancy would only occur on the death of the tenant, provided the successor qualified to succeed and there had been no previous succession.Since 1987 only one Right of Succession? If granted a succession, it is to the tenancy NOT the property so if a successor was under occupying they would be offered suitable sized alternative accommodation in order to make best use of the housing stock. If the successor refused, they may well end up in the position of having to find their own accommodation.

Then there is the Right of Assignment but the under occupation would scupper this.

Why does your Mother want to move out? Having a secure tenancy is a very powerful asset

CB

power445

She wants to live elsewhere, as a grown man I obviously want my own place. She wants to transfer her housing benefit to private rented, obviously I want to keep on the place I have lived in for 10yrs.

Problem is if I'm to buy it, all though it has to be bought under joint tenancy, I would need to buy it only as myself, then my mother can sort her new place out after that.

If that is not a option, then my brother moving in, and then applying to buy it in 12 months would be fine also.

Ci_bach

Are you certain you are a joint tenant with your Mother?(see my previous post)

Does your Mother currently receive full Housing Benefit? I would think that her Housing Benefit award would be subject to non dependant deductions being made on account of you being in the property. The more people move in , the more deductions will be made

If you are not working - she will still have non dependant deductions taken from her Housing Benefit award. How would you afford a mortgage if you are in receipt of benefits?

You talk a lot about you buying the property, presumably you are working? If so, then have you considered moving out into private rented with your girlfriend?

This would then leave your mother the option of downsizing to a smaller property that would be cheaper for her to run

Whether or not you are working, I hope that you are contributing to the household finances.

You say that as you have lived there 10 years you 'obviously' want to stay there. would your mother not also obviously want to stay there?

I am surprised that concern has not been expressed by you that your Mother is considering leaving a secure tenancy to face a life of assured short hold tenancies - renting places for very short periods of time in comparison to the tenancy she has now. Constantly moving is not something to look forward to as a person get older. Perhaps she fee she needs her own 'space' The there is also the question of how much Local Housing Allowance she would qualify for. Would you be in a position to make up any shortfall between the LHA and the rent?

Your Mother really needs to get advice on what you say is her desire to leave the secure tenancy and what the pitfalls for her are.

I suggest she gets an appointment with her local CAB.

CB

power445

Yes it is Joint tenancy, I am currently self employed and receive housing benefit as does my mother. Not sure why you feel it is not joint tenancy?

My mother is moving to a privately rented flat not through the council housing.

Lioness_Twinkletoes

power445 wrote: »

Yes it is Joint tenancy, I am currently self employed and receive housing benefit as does my mother. Not sure why you feel it is not joint tenancy?

My mother is moving to a privately rented flat not through the council housing.

How can you afford a mortgage when you are dependent on benefits?

Candy53

I can't understand why you were given this information OP as it's clearly wrong.

I have an assured joint tenancy with my husband with an HA. It states clearly that if one partner leaves, the other will have sole tenancy. This is only done though if both tenants are in agreement to do this.

Why on earth were you told you would not be allowed to carry on being the sole tenant? Especially giving the reason about downsizing??

If you have an assured tenancy and you meet all the requirements of the contract, they can't evict you. Even if they think you should down size, they can't force you to, they can only ask if you would be prepared to do this. In future, for new tenants I can see this changing in the contract, but for now, your assured tenancy protects you.

It sounds, from what you were told that you are not a joint tenant, in which case, if your mother left, you would have to leave also. But, you say you do have a joint tenancy, so something is wrong here.


Candy

pmlindyloo

Candy53 wrote: »

I can't understand why you were given this information OP as it's clearly wrong.

I have an assured joint tenancy with my husband with an HA. It states clearly that if one partner leaves, the other will have sole tenancy. This is only done though if both tenants are in agreement to do this.

Why on earth were you told you would not be allowed to carry on being the sole tenant? Especially giving the reason about downsizing??

If you have an assured tenancy and you meet all the requirements of the contract, they can't evict you. Even if they think you should down size, they can't force you to, they can only ask if you would be prepared to do this. In future, for new tenants I can see this changing in the contract, but for now, your assured tenancy protects you.

It sounds, from what you were told that you are not a joint tenant, in which case, if your mother left, you would have to leave also. But, you say you do have a joint tenancy, so something is wrong here.


Candy

Perhaps then the OP should look at the tenancy agreement and see what it says about ending a joint tenancy.

My understanding is that if someone ends a joint tenancy then that person remains liable for the rent unless the council agrees to terminate the tenancy.

The council could then allow the other joint tenant to take over the tenancy but there is no legal requirement to do this (other than if it is stated otherwise in the tenancy agreement)

http://www2.eastriding.gov.uk/housing/council-tenants/your-tenancy/jointtenancy/

In this instance it appears the landlord is saying that to allow the joint tenancy to terminate would mean that the OP was under occupying the accommodation. My understanding is that, in this case, the OP should be offered a one bed property.

The OP should look at his tenancy agreement and then seek further advice from Shelter or CAB.

Candy53

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Perhaps then the OP should look at the tenancy agreement and see what it says about ending a joint tenancy.

My understanding is that if someone ends a joint tenancy then that person remains liable for the rent unless the council agrees to terminate the tenancy.

The council could then allow the other joint tenant to take over the tenancy but there is no legal requirement to do this (other than if it is stated otherwise in the tenancy agreement)

http://www2.eastriding.gov.uk/housing/council-tenants/your-tenancy/jointtenancy/

In this instance it appears the landlord is saying that to allow the joint tenancy to terminate would mean that the OP was under occupying the accommodation. My understanding is that, in this case, the OP should be offered a one bed property.

The OP should look at his tenancy agreement and then seek further advice from Shelter or CAB.

Oh, well it surprises me that the laws differ then from HA to HA or council to council. I thought they would be the same. It look's like the OP hasn't a leg to stand on then. It's not a fair deal to be told if one partner/joint tenant leaves, the whole tenancy has to end. If the rules were the same with our HA it would be a frightening senario to think that if my husband left me I would lose my home.

I still can't understand though. A sole tenancy can be passed down once. So if that tenant left, the partner that's left should have it passed down to them? Or is it just when the tenant dies? If you're a joint tenant, and one leaves, you should be allowed to carry on that tenancy. It's not fair at all.

Candy

nannytone_2

when i split with my ex in 1990, the property i lived in was changed from a joint tenancy to a tenancy solely in my name.
i was told at the time that this was the one permitted change and that no other changes would be allowed apart from in 'exceptional' circumstances

Ci_bach

Power445
"Yes it is Joint tenancy, I am currently self employed and receive housing benefit as does my mother. Not sure why you feel it is not joint tenancy"

.... because it is very unusual for a joint tenancy for a joint tenancy to be created between parent and child

PMLINDYLOO
"My understanding is that if someone ends a joint tenancy then that person remains liable for the rent unless the council agrees to terminate the tenancy"

..... if one party serves Notice on the Council to terminate the tenancy - the tenancy is terminated for both parties if the Council accepts the Notice

Candy53
"If you have an assured tenancy and you meet all the requirements of the contract, they can't evict you. Even if they think you should down size, they can't force you to, they can only ask if you would be prepared to do this. In future, for new tenants I can see this changing in the contract, but for now, your assured tenancy protects you"

.... sounds like a Council tenancy so would be a Secure tenancy not an Assured tenancy. Different rights apply

Nannytone
"when i split with my ex in 1990, the property i lived in was changed from a joint tenancy to a tenancy solely in my name.
i was told at the time that this was the one permitted change and that no other changes would be allowed apart from in 'exceptional' circumstances"

.... that may have been the case then but nowadays removing or adding a party to a tenancy should be done by Court Order. In the case of (ex) spouses it would be a Property Adjustment Order