blue badge/EA 2010 POPLA appeal advice

breezeblock

After following all the advised procedures with the help of pepipoo and the newbie stickie on here, I have had a rejection with a POPLA code. I have searched extensively on both forums but am unable to find a POPLA appeal that is in any way relevant to the situation.

This was a ticket from a pub car park to an 87 year old for overstaying the free 2 hours by 30 minutes and not paying the fee.

The car was displaying a valid blue badge, and there are no concessions for blue badge holders (EA2010, although they deny having to adhere to this in their letter?) and there are no signs in the disabled parking area, where there is a ramped rear entrance to the pub. The pub and head office have denied all responsibility for the parking.

There is a large sign at the entrance that you would have to get out of the car to read, and smaller signs at the front of the car park saying refer to the signs on entry.

I am a bit unsure of what arguments are relevant with regard to the disability issue, despite weeks of research, so any advice would be very gratefully accepted.

Coupon-mad

Which PPC issued the PCN, and did the registered keeper appeal without saying who was driving?

How come there is a 'fee' after 2 hours, which pub/what's the sign like? Is a tariff payable after a set period of free parking?

breezeblock

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Thank you for the reply. Apologies, it is 90 minutes free.

Which PPC issued the PCN, euro car parks

and did the registered keeper appeal without saying who was driving? yes

How come there is a 'fee' after 2 hours, it is a wetherspoons pub near a hospital, you used to pay then get a refund if you bought a meal/drink, but now you get 90 minutes free but then pay a fee, which is refunded on purchase

which pub/what's the sign like? Is a tariff payable after 2 hours free?
do you mean the sign on entry to the car park?

Due to the car park being extremely busy, it took around 15 minutes to find a space and park. The pub was understaffed and very busy, and it was 40 minutes from the time of entry to getting served (time on receipt).

Smartsaver7

Most good businesses will get the ticket cancelled if you can prove you were using their facilities, he/she has a receipt showing a purchase , if they have CCTV in the pub may still have it, some kept for 28 days which will show him/ her still on premises after the 2hrs,. The fees are to prevent people taking the P, not genuine customers, he/ she would have been refunded anyway.
The fact she was displaying a blue badge seems irrelevant , as you say no concession for blue bade holders other than reserved space and she would have got a penalty anyway as overstayed.
I would speak to the customer service department of Weatherspoons and explain the situation , do they really want an 87yr old blue badge holder giving them negative publicity??

Coupon-mad

Smartsaver7 wrote: »

Most good businesses will get the ticket cancelled if you can prove you were using their facilities, have you a receipt showing you purchased a meal, if they have CCTV in the pub may still have it, some kept for 28 days which will show her still on premises after the 2hrs,. The fees are to prevent people taking the P, not genuine customers, she would have been refunded anyway.

Seconded, especially bearing in mind the slower-moving disabled customer. Discrimination.

This was a ticket from a pub car park to an 87 year old for overstaying the free 2 hours by 30 minutes and not paying the fee.

@breezeblock, I would not try to argue too much about the EA 2010 in the POPLA appeal, as they won't read that. It should be a final point, not #1.

Woodie's thread about ECP on pepipoo at the moment is discussing a POPLA appeal (please read to the end, don't seize upon his older version POPLA appeal earlier in the thread because 'no keeper liability' will not be worth arguing unless the keeper received the PCN after 14 days):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=108644

You can also distinguish the case from the Beavis case where the Judges actually remarked (essentially) that a system with a small tariff after a free licence to park, was 'entirely different' from the 'complex' commercial justification in that case. You can search either forum to find that covered in another POPLA appeal. You need a point about how the Beavis case is different.

And we have template POPLA appeal points re 'unclear signs' and 'no landowner authority' etc., in the NEWBIES thread, post #3 of that sticky has the links to help you build a POPLA appeal of basics, then add the stuff mentioned above.

breezeblock

Thank you. Will get reading.

breezeblock

I have just read Woodies thread and see that he ended up paying the fine. I am just going through the appeal he posted on 9th Nov and can hopefully tweak it as above.

Coupon-mad

breezeblock wrote: »

I have just read Woodies thread and see that he ended up paying the fine. I am just going through the appeal he posted on 9th Nov and can hopefully tweak it as above.

Did he? Wow what a mug - and it's not a fine! I've just looked and he was appealing to POPLA then suddenly gave up and decided to pay ECP. That was madness!

Jeez he could have just ignored them if POPLA was proving a task! No-one on the forums pays normally - so forget him. A terrible example. Awful. Stupid.

:mad:

Show us your draft POPLA appeal.

Guys_Dad

Given that an 87 year old is unlikely to have spent over 90 minutes on their own in the pub, is probable that they had at least one companion.

The question, therefore, is whether the 87 year old is the Registered Keeper? I know that when I take my father in law out in my car, he brings his BB.

So, will the 87 year old be getting the NtK?

breezeblock

It took 20 mins to park as it was very busy. It was a family meal and they were short staffed so it took around 40 mins from parking to ordering food, half of the time allowed. Dad is the registered keeper.

A blue badge was displayed.

All this, with the receipt as proof of time food order taken was submitted with the appeal to euro car parks and to the pub customer services, but to no avail.

I am struggling with the "beavis differences" as all the ones I am reading are re: permit parking or seem to go against my case???

Guys_Dad

breezeblock wrote: »

It took 20 mins to park as it was very busy. It was a family meal and they were short staffed so it took around 40 mins from parking to ordering food, half of the time allowed. Dad is the registered keeper.

A blue badge was displayed.

All this, with the receipt as proof of time food order taken was submitted with the appeal to euro car parks and to the pub customer services, but to no avail.

I am struggling with the "beavis differences" as all the ones I am reading are re: permit parking or seem to go against my case???

Have you tried appealing to Head Office with your proof as per your post? Point out that it was due to their staffing levels and having to wait that caused the problem and that it was a reasonable expectation on entry that the time for the meal would not have exceeded 90 minutes and that, even if you had gone back out to buy extra time, that would have shown on the ticket as being up to 90 minutes after you originally entered and that the cameras would have recorded the discrepancy between the time of entry and time a parking ticket was purchased.