2 Years rule for employment rights. Very confusing

Undervalued

sangie595 wrote: »

Well I am afraid that I still disagree with them! Pay in lieu does not change the situation in terms of calculating service - it is still the date of dismissal plus statutory notice if the dismissal is immediate ( without serving notice). The fact they have observed contractual notice by paying it on lieu is irrelevant.

For what it is worth that is also my understanding.

Obviously the solicitors you have spoken to have the advantage that they have been able to directly question you about the situation.

However I think you said earlier that you have spoken to three (or is it it four) firms and had conflicting advice?

To cut to the chase, assume for the moment that you can actually bring an unfair dismissal claim. Have you fully assessed the likely merit and value of the claim if it is won? If the claim is weak or unlikely to lead to a worthwhile amount of compensation the rest is only really of academic interest!

Undervalued

Mishomeister wrote: »

Thanks Sangie. Would you(Or any one else) be able to advice me of the source where I could find out for sure?

I ahave rang ACAS 3 days ago and they have told me what you are sayinbg, but have rang them again today and they said pretty much the same as Irwin Mitchel.

At the first level ACAS is simply a call centre staffed by people with limited training. That is not a definitive way of checking advice from a solicitor!

Mishomeister

Undervalued wrote: »

For what it is worth that is also my understanding.

Obviously the solicitors you have spoken to have the advantage that they have been able to directly question you about the situation.

However I think you said earlier that you have spoken to three (or is it it four) firms and had conflicting advice?

That's correct.

Undervalued wrote: »

To cut to the chase, assume for the moment that you can actually bring an unfair dismissal claim. Have you fully assessed the likely merit and value of the claim if it is won? If the claim is weak or unlikely to lead to a worthwhile amount of compensation the rest is only really of academic interest!

Their diciplinary pack is really week and full of inconsistencies. For example It would say that I havesaid an x thing and attach an email from myself as an evidence, however in that email I am saying an opposite thing to what they are claiming I say.
There is a very good chance that if I go to the meeting and I already have my statutory rights they will not dismiss me in fear I can take them to tribunal hence their case is weak and there is a high chance of them losing it. Or I am able to negotiate some good exit terms if they want me out so much.
The hearing date is now set just a week away from when I turn 2 years at that company.

Undervalued

Mishomeister wrote: »

That's correct.



Their diciplinary pack is really week and full of inconsistencies. For example It would say that I havesaid an x thing and attach an email from myself as an evidence, however in that email I am saying an opposite thing to what they are claiming I say.
There is a very good chance that if I go to the meeting and I already have my statutory rights they will not dismiss me in fear I can take them to tribunal hence their case is weak and there is a high chance of them losing it. Or I am able to negotiate some good exit terms if they want me out so much.
The hearing date is now set just a week away from when I turn 2 years at that company.

You will only get "good exit terms" if you are in a strong negotiating position.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of unfair dismissal claims that are won lead to compensation of under £6K. What is special about your claim that might lead it to be an exception?

So, even assuming you can bring a claim and win it is it going to be worthwhile?

Regarding the timing, is in not possible to stall the date of the hearing? Are you being accompanied by a union rep of colleague? Perhaps they have an unexpected diary clash?

Mishomeister

Undervalued wrote: »

Regarding the timing, is in not possible to stall the date of the hearing? Are you being accompanied by a union rep of colleague? Perhaps they have an unexpected diary clash?

They have already managed to drag it for almost a month. Not sure if they will be able to drag it for another week, as I have a feeling the employer are rushing this knowing the date I acquire my employmkent rights and is trying all they can to ensure the hearing happens before that date.

sangie595

This is all getting very convoluted. I know my head is somewhat screwed up with my hip replacement drugs and so on, but regardless, I can't see what is going on here. You haven't been dismissed? So this is all hypothetical?

I'm with Undervalued here - can you please explain exactly what is going on here?

Mishomeister

sangie595 wrote: »

This is all getting very convoluted. I know my head is somewhat screwed up with my hip replacement drugs and so on, but regardless, I can't see what is going on here. You haven't been dismissed? So this is all hypothetical?

I'm with Undervalued here - can you please explain exactly what is going on here?

The hearing is to decide if to dismiss me. The hearing is booked ofr the 17th November and I have started my employment on 24 November.
With the way the are dealing with this, for example the yhave sent me on improvement course and then promissed to review my performace for 6 months before deciding whether to place me on a PIP.
Instead one week after I have been on the course, I get a letter saying the hearing to consider my dismissal is to take place next day(As you could see from the above post of mine, my union rep has managed to drag this further and further away). In that week nothing has changed and I had no opportunity to show any improvement in my work.

This all looks like that the decision to get rid of me was made in a rush and is likely was made due to upcoming organisational resctructure.

Undervalued

Mishomeister wrote: »

The hearing is to decide if to dismiss me. The hearing is booked ofr the 17th November and I have started my employment on 24 November.
With the way the are dealing with this, for example the yhave sent me on improvement course and then promissed to review my performace for 6 months before deciding whether to place me on a PIP.
Instead one week after I have been on the course, I get a letter saying the hearing to consider my dismissal is to take place next day(As you could see from the above post of mine, my union rep has managed to drag this further and further away). In that week nothing has changed and I had no opportunity to show any improvement in my work.

This all looks like that the decision to get rid of me was made in a rush and is likely was made due to upcoming organisational resctructure.

Far more useful would be to get some advice on whether, assuming for a moment they do dismiss you, you would actually have a worthwhile unfair dismissal claim.

It really isn't that difficult to manage somebody out perfectly lawfully if an employer has a mind to.

You seem to have the view that if you can somehow get over the magic two years your job is set in stone. It really doesn't work like that. The days of automatic tribunal awards for minor technical breaches are long gone. Yes they might have to take a bit of extra care to dot the I's and cross the T's but that is about it.

At best, unless there is something very special about your case, you would have a load of grief and end up with a couple of grand in compensation and no reference.

Sorry but that is the harsh reality.

Mishomeister

I obviously will be looking for another job asap, just want to get as much money from them as possible, so I could survive whilst looking for another job.

Savvy_Sue

Mishomeister wrote: »

I obviously will be looking for another job asap, just want to get as much money from them as possible, so I could survive whilst looking for another job.

Even assuming you had a valid claim worth bringing, it would be some time before it got to tribunal, with no certain outcome. Do not rely on a payout to enable you to survive until you have another job.