NHS pension Mental Health Officer Status

Penandpencil

In 1994 I was offered a refund on my pension contributions by NHS pensions. I was in a low salary post and had been in the pension since September 1994 and left in January. I subsequently re-joined in September 1995 when I got a new slightly better paid post. As a result I have been informed that I have lost my mental health officer status. I believe I was ill advised to cash in my pension as I was not clear about the big implication this would have for my future. Can anyone offer any advice or have similar experience?

Kynthia

Was it a choice or was it because you hadn't been a member of the scheme for the minimum required length of time? Most public sector DB schemes have a minimum length of membership required for the pension to be deferred when you leave, 2 years on the civil service pension scheme. If you leave before that you have to either have a refund of your contributions or transfer yours and your employer contributions to another pension scheme. Also public sector staff don't usually give 'advice' as that's a regulated activity and they would tell you the facts or suggest to get independent advice. So who 'advised' you or were they just telling you that you had to have a refund?

Penandpencil

Thanks for your reply. I was in the scheme for 3-4 months approx. I didn't have to leave. I was given a choice by NHS but was unaware of the implications of leaving. I would definitely not have left if I'd have known the effect on my retirement age. I was considering appealing via my union but wanted to see if anyone else was in same position.

AnotherJoe

When you say you left and then rejoined are you referring to the job or the pension?

mollycat

Penandpencil wrote: »

In 1994 I was offered a refund on my pension contributions by NHS pensions. I was in a low salary post and had been in the pension since September 1994 and left in January. I subsequently re-joined in September 1995 when I got a new slightly better paid post. As a result I have been informed that I have lost my mental health officer status. I believe I was ill advised to cash in my pension as I was not clear about the big implication this would have for my future. Can anyone offer any advice or have similar experience?

Hi OP.

I'm an MHO and have been since 1986.

I'm struggling to think of the scenario whereby you would have been "offered" a refund of your contributions other than this being instigated by yourself.

I, nor anyone I work with, has had this offer made by our employer.

I realise that you are probably are frustrated at disadavantaging yourself, but I think the onus would have been on yourself to have an understanding and appreciation of your pension t&c's and the consequences of removing yourself from the scheme.

I don't think you have any grounds as i think it unlikely any "advice" was given by your employer but perhaps someone who has more knowledge will be along in a bit with more hopeful advice.

Penandpencil

Hello My recollection is that NHS pensions wrote to a myself and a number of my colleagues and offered us the option of leaving the scheme.

Kynthia

Penandpencil wrote: »

Hello My recollection is that NHS pensions wrote to a myself and a number of my colleagues and offered us the option of leaving the scheme.

Was this to people who had left employment or were still NHS employees?

shortcrust

You weren't ill advised because you weren't advised to do anything. You were given an option. It was your responsibility to make sure you understood the implications of your choice.

jamesd

The change in MHO status scheme eligibility rules happened from 6 March 1995 when the applicable regulations changed, 1 April in Scotland and Northern Ireland. By leaving and taking a refund in January 1995 and rejoining in September you restarted after the benefit had been eliminated for the new employee that you had become.

It is normal practice for defined benefit pension schemes to offer individuals who are leaving employment within two years of starting the options of either transferring the money to another pension scheme or having a refund of contributions, often without an option to remain in the defined benefit scheme.

It seems entirely possible that if you had been given any advice all it might have been able to include is "sometime in the future the rules might change to your detriment depending on just when you were first in the scheme".

However, it does seem sensible for you to determine whether it was known at the time of your decision that the change to MHO status was going to happen and whether you were informed of that. You would also then need to establish in some way that you'd have thought that it mattered compared to getting your money back, since you were leaving the job and might have had no expectation of returning to NHS service.

It also seems potentially arguable that while you took a refund of contributions, you had actually joined the scheme before the change and should be treated as having MHO status even after the refund of contributions had eliminated your existing benefits under the scheme.

I suggest that you pursue the investigation and argument if you have spent a significant amount of time since then in the scheme with most of your time spent in direct patient contact.

The decision that you made at the time wasn't an unreasonable one, however unfortunate the outcome today is. Nor was the offer to you unreasonable. But this doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing your arguments.

Manxman_in_exile

Sorry you are in this situation but as others have said I very much doubt that anybody in the NHS would have "advised" you to leave the scheme. (Have you kept any evidence of any advice?)

My first NHS job in 1988 was as a Superannuation clerk, at about the time staff were first allowed to opt out of the scheme (to allow them to join supposedly "better value" private schemes if I recall correctly). My then manager made it perfectly clear to all staff who enquired about opting out that we were not allowed to offer them any advice as to what to do - we could only tell them what their options were.

Even so, if anybody with MHO status wanted to opt out my manager would have gone out of their way (short of giving actual "advice" of course) to make sure they understood exactly what they were giving up. One year later I moved to a MH unit and quickly learned why MHOs jealously guarded and preserved their status.

You say the NHS "wrote" to you with an offer to opt out. Was it possibly because you were a new starter? All new starters in the 90s would have received a Pension pack explaining how the scheme worked. That pack would have included a form SD502 which would have explained how to opt out of the scheme. Unfortunately, many lower paid staff did as it meant more take home pay.

(PS - told a slight fib. When I said we never gave advice, I mean we never advised anyone to leave)

Manxman_in_exile

Penandpencil - Just re-read post #9 from jamesd. If I were you I think I would try to investigate this further (as jamesd suggests) as the benefits of MHO status are too valuable to give up without a fight. But I honestly don't think you'll be successful. But neither can you lose any more.


I don't know if these questions are relevant or not, but here goes:


First, you've already been asked (but not, I think, answered) did you leave both the scheme and NHS employment, or did you just leave the scheme?


Second, this goes back over 20 years ago. Have you only just learned that you lost your MHO status back then?


Third, who has advised you of the loss of MHO status? Has the NHSBA confirmed this?


Fourth, are you certain you had MHO status in the first place and that you would have kept this in the new job if you hadn't left the scheme?


Last, what has your union advised you? (Your local rep almost certainly won't have the necessary detailed knowledge or expertise to help, but someone at regional or national level will).


I don't think you've any hope of success, but if it's a question of perhaps being able to retire now or having to work another 20 years you need to find out.