Major central heating works - please help guide a First-Time buyer!

Elphaba2007

Hi,

I have just moved into a new house, hurrah! However, the central heating has been proclaimed too dangerous to use. That's OK as we knew about it beforehand, but now I'm after opinions on what I should do.

A plumber is coming round tomorrow to give a detailed quote. He's already given me recommendations, and I would like to know anyone else's opinions about what he said (especially any other plumbers on this board). I know very little about plumbing.

I live in a terraced house with 3 bedrooms, bathroom, downstairs loo, large kitchen and lounge-diner.

It currently has an electric shower, hot-air vent heating (that is condemned - the whole system needs revamping apparently, not just the boiler), a boiler in the kitchen, and a hot-water tank in the bathroom.

The plumber said I could either a) revamp the hot air vent heating system (cost around £2000), or totally replace it with radiators with a combi boiler (cost around £4000). I know other houses in the terrace have installed radiators.

He thinks I should put a combi boiler in the bathroom where the hot-water tank currently is.

Boilers he recommends are Vaillant and Glow-worm. He thinks the new Vaillant's aren't as good as they used to be because they replaced some component with plastic, but Glow-worm are owned by Vaillant anyway and still use the metal component.

So, my questions are:

1) Would you recommend keeping and fixing the hot-air vent heating system or replacing with radiator system?
2) Would you recommend a combi boiler or keep the hot water tank?
3) He recommended a 24 size boiler, is that big enough? I know someone with a small flat who has a 31 boiler?
4) Opinions on Vaillant vs Glow-worm? Is what he said about the metal component true? What is this component?
5) Do all the upstairs floors have to come up to lay pipes? How intrusive is it likely to be? Should I paint the walls before the work is done so I don't need to paint around radiators later, or will the installation make such a mess it's not worth painting first?

Many thanks!

Canucklehead

Hi

I'll answer some of your points.

IMO I would find company or installer who is qualified for warm air.It is a separate qualification to wet heating and not that many installers do it.
As housing becomes ever more insulated and draught proofed having an up to date warm air system will reduce the moisture in your home and the problems that come with it.
Your hot water can be supplied from a warm air boiler (as was your existing system probably)

Not sure what parts the plumber means but Glow worm have plenty of plastic in them as well. Vaillant have had a recent problem with a burner seal failing and melting plastic parts but these have probably all been found by now.(Upgraded seals are now fitted)

A certain amount of floor will have to come up to lay pipes ,it all depends on rad positions.

See www.trustcorgi.com for installers.
Corgi Guy.

EliteHeat

1) Would you recommend keeping and fixing the hot-air vent heating system or replacing with radiator system?

On the plus side these things are quite efficient and certainly will heat the property up quickly. On the minus side, they a huge, frightening to look at, circulate dust, require purpose built ventilation and no one wants to see them.

2) Would you recommend a combi boiler or keep the hot water tank?

You could have a combi boiler with no hot water cylinder, a conventional boiler with a HWC or even combi with a HWC. The choice is yours.

3) He recommended a 24 size boiler, is that big enough? I know someone with a small flat who has a 31 boiler?

24kW is nowhere near big enough. I would feel dubious about fitting one in a one bedroom flat. Its performance in the winter will be dire and it should not be fitted in a 3 BR house, I would be thinking of 37kW if your water pressure & flow rate justified it.

4) Opinions on Vaillant vs Glow-worm? Is what he said about the metal component true? What is this component?

Both excellent boilers. I would go for the Vaillant over the GW. I have no idea about plastic parts - do you really care about this?

5) Do all the upstairs floors have to come up to lay pipes? How intrusive is it likely to be? Should I paint the walls before the work is done so I don't need to paint around radiators later, or will the installation make such a mess it's not worth painting first?

Yes they will. Don't do any painting, just ask the installer to demonstrate how to quickly remove a radiator on a running system

Elphaba2007

Thanks for your replies, very helpful. The plumber's visited last night.

Canucklehead, the plumber I saw is qualified in warm air but thanks for suggesting it, and he is also qualified in wet heating and to certify the electrical work.

I've rung 2 other plumbers who are also qualified on both warm air and wet heating. All 3 seem to think putting in radiator system is better. One guy was VERY negative about warm air, even though he's qualified for them; he said he thinks they easily become unsafe with carbon monoxide, are expensive for what they are as hardly anyone makes them anymore and also I think he has asthma and the dust bothers him.

The hot water is currently from an electric emersion heater, not from the warm air system.

Thanks EliteHeat, for your comment re the size of boiler. The other plumbers I rang recommended Vaillant and WB, and both said 24 is too small. I mentioned this to the plumber last night and he was insistent that 24 was fine and I had to specifically tell him to quote me for a 30 as well as a 24 (I don't have his quote yet).

So, my new questions are:

1) Why would a plumber try to get me to have a smaller boiler? Are there any negatives to installing the biggest boiler you can afford? If I wanted to put in a 37 would there be any reason why that would be bad (apart from the extra cost of the boiler itself)?

2) The bathroom has a lovely trendy electric towel rail. The bathroom didn't have a vent system so it has never been heated, even when the warm air was working. The bathroom was newly installed when I moved in and I'm reluctant to mess it all up by taking off the towel rail and putting in a radiator. What are people's opinions re not putting a radiator in the bathroom? Foolish? Why? Would it put you off buying the house in future? Could I just put in a very very small one and keep the towel rail as a kind of half-way house?

3) The plumber I saw yesterday I asked about moisture problems with wet heating and he didn't think it was much of a problem? Is this a common problem you and your OH have found?

4) Is heating the water using electric immersion going to be costing me a fortune? All the hot water's being used for at the moment is the odd bit of washing up I think. Should I turn it off at night to save money, or turn it off completely until the central heating is installed and just wash up using a kettle? I presume the washing machine fills up with cold water and heats it up itself or would this normally come from a tank?

Thank you for all your wisdom and help!

silvercar

MY friend is renting a house with warm air heating, its not very good. If you get cold you stand on top of a floor vent and let the heat blow around you. Apparently to replace with radiators (as the landlord was thinking of doing) would mean removing all the vents, which would be messy to say the least.

We have a towel rail and no radiator in one bathroom. I would say it is OK if the bathroom is small and you take the towels off the rail half an hour before you want to use the bathroom. Otherwise the towels get warm and the bathroom stays cold.

Canucklehead

Hi

I was thinking along the lines of heat recovery. Johnson and Starley are still producing warm air heating products. I don't think much of their web site (not much detail, for me anyway)
See here and you will see what I mean about moisture..
http://www.johnsonandstarleyltd.co.uk/prod_vent.asp

As you have warm air I thought maybe the installers who came out to you might be interested in this kind of thing.Apparently not.

24 kw is too small for a combi as posted by Elite Heat

The immersion heater will cost more but as it's all you have then you will have to use it. It will have a thermostat in it so all you can do is check it's not set too high (60 degrees is ok) and it cuts out when up to temp.
W/m will have internal heater.

Corgi Guy