ES Enforcement County Court Claim

Coupon-mad

Re the hearing fee, it is a matter of waiting and finding out. The Directions sent by the local Judge should state the dates by which both parties must do things, so you could then phone your court of that date passes, and see if they've paid the hearing fee.

Just make sure you read it carefully and know your date to file your own WS and documents.

In your documents I would include Bulstrode v Lambert [1953] 1 WLR 1064, [1953] 2 All ER 728 which is explained here:

https://www.newlawjournal.co.uk/content/driven-edge

See why that's useful? You can use it to argue that stopping to load bulky items, given the nature of the car park and its purpose, is reasonable and indeed a necessity.

From that summary:

''After considering the facts at the time of the grant, Mr Justice Upjohn ruled that an ancillary right to stop, load and unload may be implied into the express grant of a right of way where such a right is necessary for the reasonable enjoyment of the right of way.''

It would really help you if the landowner or Next provide an email to support your temporary stop!

Dot2101

Hi coupon mad
Great find re the case you sent over and I do see how this ties in nicely. I have had a respite from the land owners to confirm that they are the land owners and have gone back to her to ask if she can support my temporary stopping on the site, fingers crossed!
Thank you again for your help

Dot2101

Hi coupon mad
After much back and forth Next complaints dept are not been helpful and have quoted the following;
" I can appreciate your reasons for stopping, but there are legal constrictions that everyone has to abide by. This includes rule 238 of the Highway Code, which states ‘Double yellow lines indicate a prohibition of waiting at any time even if there are no upright signs.’

Unfortunately there’s nothing more we can do, as you made the decision to park on the double yellow lines, so the responsibility lies with you."

Again this was a matter of stopping to be able to load the car, no more than a few minutes. Are they right to quote rule 238? I've tried to search for advice on this within the forum but couldn't find much.

Failing this do you think it is worth an email to the CEO? I can see from previous posts on the forum that the email is Simon_wolfson@next.co.uk any idea if this is still the same, post was few years old.

Look forward to your reply, I keep
Noticing E S are taking people to court daily so my hopes are dwindling

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Are they right to quote rule 238?

No. They are wrong and clearly should not be talking about Council on-street parking restrictions as if they know what they are talking about, when they are misleading you and have no idea. That is terrible, they are WRONG.

The Highway Code does not set parking regulations, the TMA2004 does (on street which is what they were getting at).

The truth - loading and unloading on double yellows is exempt activity:

http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/article/25704/Are-there-exemptions-from-yellow-line-waiting-restrictions

If it were me I would be emailing them straight back and asking why they are either:

- deliberately misleading you or,

- falling for the myth that double yellows mean no parking at all and talking out of their backsides...

Either way, it is embarrassing for Next's CEO and distressing for you, that they are wrong and have lectured you, based on their own misunderstanding of the meaning of double yellow lines - if they didn't know (and clearly Next did not know) they should not have attempted to comment and instead should have tried to assist their customer with this awful situation.

Notwithstanding their error in understanding of parking law, this is private land, not on-street and it required prominent and clear signs to form a contract. There were none. If double yellows are intended to have a different meaning from the definition and exemptions allowed under the TMA2004 (i.e. if they intend there to be 'no exemptions for loading unloading') then there would need to be signs at the lines stating their own odd/unexpected rules clearly. Otherwise it is reasonable for a circumspect driver to believe that the usual double yellows exemptions apply.

Noticing E S are taking people to court daily so my hopes are dwindling

I always think people we help with defences will win. I am always positive. Going to court does not mean a parking firm will win and is certainly worth the fight. But in this case you are going to need to understand how to rebut the trash they say, which is probably even trashier and more wrong than Next's efforts.

You are going to have to get 'legalese' in your case and use case law, to show loading/unloading is part & parcel of rights of access in a car park, unless signed otherwise (and it wasn't). The Judge might otherwise swallow the rubbish that Next did!

Dot2101

Hi coupon mad
Thank you so much for your reply and reassurance, I must say I was shocked at how they have responded, clear that they are keen to wash their hands of it but the way they said it did throw me and the confidence I had in what I had previously thought about DYL so I'm glad to hear that I wasn't mistaken after all.

I've read the link you sent, its good to have it clearly bullet pointed but il research that TMA2004 for further clarity.

The landowner before Christmas also did not want to particularly help;
"We have no jurisdiction to overrule the company who patrol the car park areas. I have put a call out to the company to see if they can investigate the matter as per your email." I went back and said I had already tried this method a number of times and of course I haven't heard anything back from landowner or E S

I've been lucky and had a lot of help from yourself and Parking prankster so I feel that if it comes to it I should be able to collate plenty of evidence and previous court case findings but do need to find more case law.

Apart from on forums is there ways of findings out how court cases turned out? I look everyday on BMPA so I can see which companies are taking people to court but it would be good to know what they are winning, I haven't heard or read anything else about anyone having a fine at the retail park.

Thank you again for reassuring me that I'm not going mad!

Coupon-mad

Apart from on forums is there ways of findings out how court cases turned out? I look everyday on BMPA so I can see which companies are taking people to court but it would be good to know what they are winning,

We only get to hear about the ones we (the BMPA and the Parking Prankster, and forums) are told about. So, most outcomes are unknown. But we have learnt over the years - and especially since the Beavis case - what arguments can still win.

Dot2101

Hi couponmad
I have been sent a court date a couple months back to go to court on the 11th April
Gladstones have sent me the images that they have of the car, this shows it on the DYL at 11.44 and 11.45 so talking maximum of 2 minutes- if you think it would be good to see them is there a way I can send these to you directly (conscious that it has the number plate info in)
I have emailed the landowner again to try to get her to help me (previously unwilling) and intend on paying a visit to show next the photos
Gladstones is claiming to have paid the court fee but after calling courti know this isn't the case.
Would you say in the meantime carry on gathering evidence and am I right in saying that the WS acts as an extension to the arguments already laid out in the defence, adding in case laws to further defend which are all added in as appendices?
Thank you for your help in advance

Coupon-mad

I have been sent a court date a couple months back to go to court on the 11th April

Would you say in the meantime carry on gathering evidence and am I right in saying that the WS acts as an extension to the arguments already laid out in the defence, adding in case laws to further defend which are all added in as appendices?

Yes that's right, do you have to file the WS and evidence before 14 days prior to the hearing, or sooner?

Dot2101

I need to dig out the paperwork to double check but pretty certain that it is the 14 days before, I will come back to you though to confirm
Tried numerous methods so far, contacting Next customer services, director of Next, staff in next Halifax and all are saying as its third party they cannot help.
I've contacted the landowner a couple of times but not had a recent response, I've chased her again this evening.
Noticed that someone lost today due to a bad judge and worried as I'm in Huddersfield and I'm presuming not such a hot spot for parking compared to the likes of Manchester!

NorthWestITConsultant

Hi Dot2101

Thanks for getting in touch. I'll be here as much as I can to support you through the case.

First thing is you need to get the witness statement over ASAP if you haven't already. The judge made a point of the fact that I was supposed to provide it 2 months earlier but that he'd accept it as it was 4 weeks in advance. I sent in some additional evidence 2 weeks before the date and that was just ignored.

What key questions do you have with regards to the court date?

The main things I'd point out are as follows:

1) Rehearse cross examining Mr Hargreaves - I can provide you with examples of the kind of response he will give and some of the questions to ask (Hindsight will be a wonderful thing in this case!). I may send you these privately to keep him guessing in case somebody sees this post.

2) Be prepared to get a harsh judge who doesn't like to talk to the layman and so prepare your statements in advance which sound professional and will make the judge take notice

3) Be prepared for the type of arguments these lying scumbags will come out with.

Let me know what else I can help with and I'll decide which is appropriate to go on here and which to send privately.