I got made redundant today, No notice, No Payment , Full 12 Mnth contract not served

Duffy1807_2

Hi All,


So today I was made redundant from an Administrative / Sales position. As well as approx. 6 other staff, 1 Person from Accounts 4 from Telesales and myself (all different departments). Maybe some other's I don't know about.


I started work on a 12 Month contract as I had previously taken the company to court under unfair dismissal and was reinstated under a fixed term contract with higher pay.


However the company I returned to changed to a LLP Member 5 Months in to which this is the company I have the 12 month contract with , My payroll was then changed over to a different company (Commercial) side to which I have received wages from for the past 4 or so Months. (but no new contract was ever issued) technically a new employer? but same management, and same job position.

My issues I have are:

• My contract stated from the 2nd of February 2015 and was for a 12 Month Fixed guaranteed worth of work. (My employment was terminated 3 Months early)
• No redundancy notice (I have served 3 Full Years) - If you take into consideration previous employment as the contract states my pervious employment is counts towards the new position.
• No paperwork

Can anybody advise? , Do I have a valid case against this company, I feel the contract has not been served to what was agreed and therefore making myself was as an unfair candidate for selection for redundancy? .


Regards


Craig

sangie595

I knew I recalled your previous post - why the hell did you go back? I'm sure I recall another post as well, but can't find it - maybe on another site? People who go back under exactly these circumstances of fixed term contract at a higher rate, with yet another company involved, are not all that common.

Can you please evidence why you think that you were guaranteed 12 months of employment. Because a contract that cannot be terminated for any reason at all is not only exceptional, but almost impossible. As you have found out. Redundancy, insolvency - all sorts of things get in the way. And again, I so recall something about being told that you were on dodgy ground accepting a guarantee of work that could hardly be enforced. This is so familiar...

Anyway - small number of people, so no legal requirement to consult for any specific period; and if there is nothing to consult about, then they aren't going to get much more than a rap over the knuckles anyway. It only happened today, so unless they have refused you due notice pay, then they were not required to pay you today - they do have some time yet before they have to pay up. I can't see it as personal - making 11 staff you need redundant to get rid of one is excessive, even for a lousy employer. So you will need a much stronger case that a feeling, I'm afraid, to prove a case of anything - you discharged your previous claim so you cannot go backwards. And having a fixed term contract is not obviously, in and of itself, an argument that you were unfairly selected.

TBH, it sounds very much like the company is going under. The variety of companies that appear to be involved here are suspicious - I am wondering if they have been asset stripping, knowing that this was coming. Not, in itself, unlawful. Dubious morally - but nothing that isn't done every day.

Unless you can prove that the 12 month contract could not be terminated in any circumstance and that the selection was unfair, I'm afraid I'm not seeing a case. Or if they fail to pay notice/ redundancy money, but that has not yet become an issue as it is too early to say that.

Duffy1807_2

Hi, Sangie,


You are correct I did make a post a while back before making a decision on what to do with my case,


I didn't have much hope in getting the money that I was owed from (their smaller company) which went into liquidation 1 month after I started with the "bigger" firm as they said it would. I was under the impression It was either nothing or this? And as I was unemployed I chose this under certain agreements.


I have currently received 9 Months Pay of them on a increased wage which isn't too bad I don't think.


Anyway, I have attached 2 images from 2 section of my contract to which I believe explains the 12 Months worth of work quite clear. I also have an email explaining they are in a position to offer me 12 Months worth of work too.


Whether or not this is not sufficient enough to go through a tribunal, I am not 100% as this is a learning curve for me


This is a section of the email that was sent to myself before accepting the new position


"The role would be full time and permanent with no probationary period. It would be an initial 12 month contract, transferring to a standard contract at the end of the 12 month period. This would give you certainty of 12 months payments as the contract would need to be paid-up by ****** should your employment be terminated (subject to standard disciplinary processes). If you decided to leave you would only have to give a standard one week’s notice. Of course, we would hope that you will be with the company for many years to come."


Image 1
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9p2snSMMJNqMWhkcFRHUDM0STg/view?usp=sharing
Image 2
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9p2snSMMJNqV1ZKYm4wZUI3aG8/view?usp=sharing


Thanks
Craig

getmore4less

this is probably the thread here
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5397908

sangie595

getmore4less wrote: »

this is probably the thread here
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5397908

No - there was another one about the actual circumstances of this arrangements that I recall. It was maybe somewhere else, or deleted. But I am quite certain because I remember the whole of this. I have a really good memory! (Most of the time - the morphine at the moment does screw it up!)

But thank you.

sangie595

Duffy1807 wrote: »

Hi, Sangie,


You are correct I did make a post a while back before making a decision on what to do with my case,


I didn't have much hope in getting the money that I was owed from (their smaller company) which went into liquidation 1 month after I started with the "bigger" firm as they said it would. I was under the impression It was either nothing or this? And as I was unemployed I chose this under certain agreements.


I have currently received 9 Months Pay of them on a increased wage which isn't too bad I don't think.


Anyway, I have attached 2 images from 2 section of my contract to which I believe explains the 12 Months worth of work quite clear. I also have an email explaining they are in a position to offer me 12 Months worth of work too.


Whether or not this is not sufficient enough to go through a tribunal, I am not 100% as this is a learning curve for me


This is a section of the email that was sent to myself before accepting the new position


"The role would be full time and permanent with no probationary period. It would be an initial 12 month contract, transferring to a standard contract at the end of the 12 month period. This would give you certainty of 12 months payments as the contract would need to be paid-up by ****** should your employment be terminated (subject to standard disciplinary processes). If you decided to leave you would only have to give a standard one week’s notice. Of course, we would hope that you will be with the company for many years to come."


Image 1
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9p2snSMMJNqMWhkcFRHUDM0STg/view?usp=sharing
Image 2
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9p2snSMMJNqV1ZKYm4wZUI3aG8/view?usp=sharing


Thanks
Craig

OK. Unusual but clear. However this was still a lousy decision - you should have gone to tribunal! It was a decision bound to come unstuck!

This arrangement does not preclude them making you redundant. It simply means that they must pay you for the next two months - in effect it means you have a two month notice period. You won't get notice pay and the two months. If they do not, then you have a case - but only for the money, not for the previous dismissal. They can also insist that your holidays are taken during this period.

By "made redundant today" assuming they have told you that you aren't required in work, they appear to have put you on a form of gardening leave. Are you sure they told you that the redundancy was effective immediately and that you are not expected to work?

But my original point still stands - until such time as they refuse or unreasonably withhold your payments, there isn't a case. So you need to clarify these points with the employer. You can't do anything until you do. And nor can anyone here effectively advise you until you do.

Duffy1807_2

I am waiting to here back from the manager I was instructed he will call me at some point today and find out how much I am owed. I was instructed I should be paid this coming Friday, As I have requested to be paid sooner rather than later as I am on (Monthly Pay). He said their should be no problem with this he just waiting to see (how much)


I was definitely made redundant, I was taken into the room and was informed it would be from (Yesterday) - I am trying to get some kind of clarification in writing.


I will find out more hopefully sometime later on today and will keep you all updated..


Very sad news , not just for me but for everybody in (residential) as staff have dropped from about 20 to about 8 - I think the 8 left will be their to see off the closure of residential. (nobody was given notice )


On the other side (commercial) - No redundancy's have been made only side making money and have been told it will still trade as normal.


Thanks


Craig

Duffy1807_2

So I received a letter from my former employer stating the reason is for Redundancy. with a breakdown of my entitlements which I believe is wrong.


They have my length of service starting from 02/02/2016 - 01/11/2016 = 9 Months

Can somebody clarify for me please if my previous employment should have been added to this? which was


04/04/2013 - 04/06-2015 = 2 Years + 2 Months

The reason I would like to clarify this is because they have said I am not entitled to any redundancy, Before I was reinstated I ensured they put this in the contract to protect my rights. which is as followed,


Date of Commencement of Employment
- Your employment with COMPANY C began on 2nd February 2016. The previous employment with COMPANY A and COMPANY B will count as continuous employment

Am I correct in saying my total length of Service should be 2 Years and 11 Months??


Thanks