POPLA or not, advice needed

BlindXX

I recently got a ticket from UKPC for not having my permit on display outside my place of work (this is separate from the ticket in my other thread for those that have stumbled across it). I appealed this in time but my appeal has been refused. My issue is that my case seems unarguable.

The permit was on display in my rear windscreen (I moved it from the front as I was cleaning my dashboard). I have a picture to prove it's location and it was clearly visible, if not immediately obvious. The parking signs simply state the permit must be clearly displayed (no mention of location), the permit itself states it must be displayed on the windscreen (no mention of front or rear). There is no actual sign on the building where my allocated bay is, just the buildings either side.

UKPC sent this reply to my appeal (personal data removed)

Thank you for your recent communication regarding the above Parking Charge.
Please rest assured that our Appeals Manager has personally reviewed your case and carefully considered the various points you raised. Their view, however, is that the Parking Charge has been correctly issued so it will not be waived.
Please note that all parking permits must be displayed in clear view on the front windscreen so that all information is readily available. This is our final decision. However, in consideration of the information you provided, and on the basis payment is
received by us within 35 days of the date of this letter we will accept the sum of £15 in full settlement of the Parking Charge.
In light of the contents of this letter you now have a number of options :

1. Pay the parking charge detailed above at the reduced rate of £15 to UK Parking Control Ltd.
PLEASE REFER OVERLEAF FOR PAYMENT OPTIONS AND ADDRESS DETAILS.
2. Make an appeal to POPLA – Submit an appeal online at (url removed) within 28 days of the date of this letter
using the verification code above.
Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of
£15, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £90. If you opt
to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.
By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides
an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not
chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you
must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
3. If you choose to do nothing the parking charge will automatically increase after 35 days from the date of this
letter to £90 and the matter will be passed to our debt recovery agent, at which point you will be liable to pay an
additional charge of £60, in accordance with our terms and conditions of parking, and further charges will be
claimed if Court action is taken against you. Any unpaid Court Judgement may adversely affect your credit rating.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE


Yours faithfully,
Appeals Department
UK Parking Control Limited


Should I go to POPLA? - I don't know how good my defence is, I have no experience and it seems a lot of hassle if I lose my case. But the £15 also looks like they are scraping the barrel and trying to get something out of nothing! I appreciate any advice on this. Many Thanks.

The_Deep

...please note that all parking permits must be displayed in clear view on the front windscreen so that all information is readily available


Ask him to produce photographs of the signs stipulating this. If he cannot you have him by the short and curlies.


Also, do the T&C state specifically that additional charge of £60 will be payable?

Umkomaas

I think the fact they are offering to settle for £15 suggests they know they are on shaky ground.

Did your employer contract them to issue penalties on your company's car park? Even if not, do they hold any sway on this? Get them involved.

Taking a pragmatic approach - do you have the determination and stamina to fight this through to POPLA (with some help from us) to save yourself £15.

No one here will tell you to pay this, only you can decide.

BlindXX

Thanks for the prompt replies. Unfortunately, its a private road with many different companies that rent the buildings. The spaces are not part of the rental contract. The permits are issued relative to the company ie - I work at number 15 and we have two spaces out front. My permit is 15/2 - it is taken that you park outside your own building. The landlords have signed over all rights to UKPC (I am awaiting a court summons for another ticket and already tried landlord intervention and letter from employer on that ticket, all to no avail). Permit itself states "must be displayed in the windscreen"

I'm not allowed to post links or url to a pic of the sign (new user) but the sign states "A valid green permit must be clearly displayed at all times"

I'd like to fight, but only if I have a very good chance of winning!

Redx

I can assure you that you will not get a county court summons for a private parking charge (invoice) , it is a civil matter so uses the MCOL facility

court procedures by bargepole - oct 2016
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5546325

as for links , use tinypic or photobucket and paste in your web link but ensure you change it to hxxp from http before submitting the post

there could be many reasons for winning , at popla or in court, which are nased on sound legal arguments

such as

no locus standii
no contract
poor signage
signage that fails the BPA CoP
consumer laws
failure to adhere to POFA2012
fraudulent photographs (like they did 12 months ago)

and possibly a few more

only you can decide if its worth the hassle but for £15 they appear to know they will lose or be on a sticky wicket

Coupon-mad

BlindXX wrote: »

I'm not allowed to post links or url to a pic of the sign (new user) but the sign states "A valid green permit must be clearly displayed at all times"

I'd like to fight, but only if I have a very good chance of winning!

Show us a broken link to your pics, like Redx explains.

BlindXX

Thanks people, sign link is hxxp://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q394/neil287/parkingsign_zpsbtz71jwa.jpg

Permit in car
hxxp://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q394/neil287/permit_zps7xpkltqb.jpg

Permit close up
hxxp://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q394/neil287/permitcopy_zpseo8ca8hn.jpg

Just to reiterate - there are UKPC signs up along the street (on most buildings) but no signage at all on our building. We have had visitors who thought it was OK to park there as there was no sign in front of our bays.

Umkomaas

Links now live

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q394/neil287/parkingsign_zpsbtz71jwa.jpg

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q394/neil287/permitcopy_zpseo8ca8hn.jpg

Coupon-mad

The_Deep wrote: »

...please note that all parking permits must be displayed in clear view on the front windscreen so that all information is readily available

Ask him to produce photographs of the signs stipulating this. If he cannot you have him by the short and curlies.

TD is right, BlindXX, you have them by the short and curlies.

The signs says nothing about any 'relevant obligation' to display the permit anywhere in particular, you could even 'display' it as part of a tasteful framed collage on your office desk, or wear it on your head!

The SIGNS create the alleged contract. Random other terms can't be bolted on and your rear windscreen is a windscreen anyway.

Look how small print the 'parking charge' of £100 is shown in - illegible and hidden. Not even the permit mentions £100 either so you can't have agreed to the charge like Mr Beavis was held to have done, v ParkingEye at the Supreme Court.

Did you choose 'driver' in the drop-down menu when appealing online? Or 'registered keeper'?

Umkomaas

Look how small print the 'parking charge' of £100 is shown in - illegible and hidden.

And if you look carefully, the £100 is on a sticker, stuck over whatever was there previously. Can you imagine that that would be acceptable in a formal paper contract without some form of side letter or as a minimum some initialling by both parties to agree that the amendment was acceptable?

More holes than a colander.

Coupon-mad

True...the sticker could have been added at ANY time, so that could be called into question...maybe some of the signs differ and have no sticker? That's always worth checking out.