Help! advice needed on buildings insurance for my co owned second home with lodgers

mrsmumbles

What is the position of insurance with multiple tenants?

silvercar

You need an expert broker rather than one of the online insurance bods. I've used simply business .com and alanboswell.com for difficult insurance issues.

mrsmumbles

Oh ok thanks. Have you heard of policy expert? They can do me one with aviva home plus which seems reasonable but I'm not sure where to start

dacouch

Aviva Home Plus is who I would place this type of business with, it's a good policy.

As others have said, don't waste time on comparison sites etc, use specialist brokers.

P.S It being students rather then normal working people does not help as for obvious reasons, Insurers are not always keen on students as tenants

mrsmumbles

Agreed but ironically them lodging enables me to have mor access and, as lovely diligent Chinese postgrads they are reliable and mature. Has made me look at insurance in a whole new light. Hmmm...thanks for endorsing aviva...I will call up Boswell as well and take it from there...

dacouch

Bear in mind that as you're putting them down as lodgers, policies will typically exclude theft unless there are signs of a violent and / or forcible entry or exit and may also exclude malicious damage.

Kynthia

If it's not your main residence then I don't believe they can be lodgers. They are therefore tenants with the rights that accompany that. Clearly they only have 'exclusive occupation' of their rooms and the rest of the property is common areas which you can access without notice. You are free to give them ASTs without a 6 month minimum term if you wish but if you want to evict you'll have to use a S21 which I believe can't expire before 6 months and risks being invalid if you haven't complied with many requirements (please check all of these). Requirements include a legal obligation to protect their deposit plus other things like a EPC and issuing the deposit scheme prescribed information.

As you have three seperate tenants you have a HMO. This means you are responsible for the council tax and should check whether your council require licensing and additional changes to the property to comply with licensable HMO requirements.

The upside is that I'd imagine it would be fairly easy to insure the property as this isn't an uncommon set up.

mrsmumbles

Thanks for all the replies. So I got it insured with Aviva via a broker, thanks for the tip. HMO status is sorted. Only two in there so it doesn't classify as such. I am abut confused that you think they are not classed as lodgers. It is still my home as well and I am there seven days out of thirty. The insurers classed it as a second home with guests. On the positive side, this is the advantage of renting to international students...you know they are going to return home, and, hopefully, less likely to cause trouble. Not an ideal situation but the policy is validated and all I can do is keep popping in and staying over. Council tax and bills are all covered by me.

G_M

They are not lodgers, they are tenants. You turning up periodically and staying the night actually makes you into their lodger!

This is not your main residence and any court would quickly interpret what you are doing as manipulating the system in an attempt to catagorise them as lodgers.

1) you insurance is probobly invalid if the insurer beleives they are lodgers. this will not come to light unless/until you make a claim - then you'll be stuffed.Might as well cancel the policy and save on the premiums.

2)

The insurers classed it as a second home with guests.

they are not guests - guests don't pay rent.

3) if you ever come into dispute with your 'lodgers' and attempt to evict, they could claim tenants rights.

4) have you taken a deposit off them? If so, I guess you have not protected it, so......... agggggh! you could be even more stuffed!

5) I look forward to your next thread here saying you arrived at your 2nd home to find your lodgers had changed the lock and you couldn't get in and asking what should you do........

6) you need to get shot of this property. Persuade, bribe or force your brother to agree to a sale. Is he of sound mind legally? Does anyone have POA or similar?

Kynthia

Lodgers are only lodgers and not tenants if it's their landlord's main residence. It's not your main residence no matter that you stay there regularly.

It doesn't matter how many nights you stay there. It's possible to be away for a year and it be your main residence (travelling) or it be the only property you own but it not be your main residence (you don't have to own somewhere for it to be your main residence). Your main residence is elsewhere so these people are tenants with tenants rights. They have exclusive occupation of their rooms. You need to protect their deposits, have an EPC and gas safety certificate, give them 24 hours notice before entering their room, issue the deposit scheme prescribed information, evict them using S21 and then court bailiffs rather than changing the locks if they don't go when you want, and declare the rent to the HMRC as you can't use the rent a room scheme.

booksurr

mrsmumbles wrote: »

I am at the house every month, for about six to seven days. My name on deeds. Obviously not currently my main home.

so, not your main home thus they cannot be lodgers

mrsmumbles wrote: »

I do need the rental income but am now terrified that I can only get it with an uninsured property. It is useful to have the last bedroom for me TK stay in when I go up to do repairs. I got a lecture on the definition of main residence...but these days, lots of us work or live in two places a week, and I feel penalised and unable to do the right thing with insuring our family home.

you got a "lecture" because there is lots of case law which has established what is and is not a "main" home. Everything you have written so far screams that it is not your main home

mrsmumbles wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. So I got it insured with Aviva via a broker, thanks for the tip. HMO status is sorted. Only two in there so it doesn't classify as such. I am abut confused that you think they are not classed as lodgers. It is still my home as well and I am there seven days out of thirty. The insurers classed it as a second home with guests.

so you have now added invalid insurance policy to your refusal to acknowledge that it is not your main home.
Let us hope you are not claiming the rent a room allowance when you declare your rent for income tax purposes?