Mother gifting whilst in care home

Keep_pedalling

With any luck this lady will carry on to receive her card from the queen, by which time care home fees will have taken her out of IHT territory.

Culzean

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

With any luck this lady will carry on to receive her card from the queen, by which time care home fees will have taken her out of IHT territory.

That's my hope too ... thank you

Keep_pedalling

Culzean wrote: »

That's my hope too ... thank you

My very frail mother moved into a care home 6 months ago, and now that her vunaribility to a fall has been greatly reduced, and her her sense of loneliness is gone, I am conviced her life expectancy has been enhanced along with her increased quality of life.

bowlhead99

getmore4less wrote: »

try a google

hmrc taper relief on gifts

Taper relief only applies to gifts that would be taxable.

Less than the nil rate band there is no tax to pay so no taper relief it just uses up the nil rate band.

Yes, sorry for my rather dismissive response after writing my comments on the train this morning before I'd had my coffee - your point is something I have pulled up others on before!

You are right that if there aren't any other previous gifts (maybe there are or not, depending on the nature of the "support" given to the other sibling over recent years), then the £150k will be there in full until it passes 7 years. On a "first in first out" basis if there were no earlier gifts to speak of, it takes the first slice of the £325k allowance, and as this would mean there may be no tax bill on it, (because of fitting in the nil rate band), they won't get the opportunity to taper down the tax bill, while its existence stops the estate's remaining cash fitting in the nil rate band.

There may be a deceased spouse's nil rate band to use up too, depending on dates, in which case burning the cash at £50k/yr on care fees would potentially clear up the IHT "problem" quite quickly. Or maybe the rest of the estate contains (or could contain) a bunch of tax exempt assets (...though perhaps unlikely if risk free access is needed to £50k year for next decade).

Fwiw I didn't really expect my grandmother to see 80 let alone get her card from the queen; she says she doesn't expect to get the next one (at 105?) but wouldn't put it past her!

Culzean

bowlhead99 wrote: »

There may be a deceased spouse's nil rate band to use up too, depending on dates, in which case burning the cash at £50k/yr on care fees would potentially clear up the IHT "problem" quite quickly.

Fwiw I didn't really expect my grandmother to see 80 let alone get her card from the queen; she says she doesn't expect to get the next one (at 105?) but wouldn't put it past her!

Correct about my Father's nil rate band, none of it was used

Well done your Grandmother on a fine innings!

Daniel54

Culzean wrote: »

Secondly can anyone point me in the direction of any publication which deals with gifting by the elderly more generally?
/QUOTE]

If you have not already read it, your starting point should be the guidance on gifts by the Office of the Public Guardian

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/530275/OPG2-Giving-gifts-for-someone-else.pdf

It is also worth reading this additional guidance

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/457921/PGnote_2012_02_gifts.pdf

You don't say if you have an LPA or an EPA.If it is an EPA,has this been registered with the OPG ?

As others have said,the critical issues are your mother's best interests and her mental capacity.It is worth noting the Public Guardian has wide powers if a gift is deemed to be excessive,so I have always proceeded with great caution even when making modest gifts.Now my mother is without capacity the situation is clearer than when she was sometimes confused but mostly not.

xylophone

EPA,has this been registered with the OPG ?

This is only required when the Donor has lost or started to lose capacity.

https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/overview

"You must register the EPA when the donor starts to lose or has lost their mental capacity. This means they can’t make a decision at the time it needs to be made because of a mental impairment.

You must still involve the person in making decisions whenever possible and only make decisions on their behalf which are in their best interests."

robber2

presumably as you are managing your mothers affairs you have registered the EPA. If this is the case its likely that any change to her will made by her (though your brother influence or any other reason) would be considered to be invalid.

rob

Culzean

Daniel54 wrote: »

Culzean wrote: »

If you have not already read it, your starting point should be the guidance on gifts by the Office of the Public Guardian

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/530275/OPG2-Giving-gifts-for-someone-else.pdf

It is also worth reading this additional guidance

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/457921/PGnote_2012_02_gifts.pdf

You don't say if you have an LPA or an EPA.If it is an EPA,has this been registered with the OPG ?

As others have said,the critical issues are your mother's best interests and her mental capacity.It is worth noting the Public Guardian has wide powers if a gift is deemed to be excessive,so I have always proceeded with great caution even when making modest gifts.Now my mother is without capacity the situation is clearer than when she was sometimes confused but mostly not.

Thank you I will read through those

THE EPA is registered although I never really understood why and it was something my Brother actioned. In some respects I am glad it is although I still consult with my Mother about her wishes. Until now her needs have been fairly straightforward, apart perhaps for the regular payments she has insisted I make to my Brother

Culzean

robber2 wrote: »

presumably as you are managing your mothers affairs you have registered the EPA. If this is the case its likely that any change to her will made by her (though your brother influence or any other reason) would be considered to be invalid.

rob

Thank you, that is helpful and as I expected. I've not been able to find any definitive reference and so I assume each case will be taken on merit if and when challenged. Despite my misgivings I am confident it won't come to that however