Last minute title issues - a long forgotten lease

AdrianC

The seller's solicitor doesn't decide anything - they advise their client, the seller, and take instruction from them.

Seems to me that the simplest solution is to get an estimate from your solicitor for the cost of sorting this post-purchase, and request a retention for that amount.

Can you just clarify what is and isn't registered at LR, though?

I presume the FH is registered, and you're buying that.
But is the lease registered? Is the owner of that lease alive? When they moved out, did they sell the lease back to the freeholder? If not, what happened to it?

It's entirely feasible that the lease - basically, the property - was left to a family member, who may not actually realise that they own the lease. Remember, when a leasehold property is "sold", what's being sold is the lease. If that lease is still out there, then the leaseholder has every legal right to live in "your" house until 2059. You would only own the freehold.

bigfoot371

There is nothing on file to say what happened to the lady with the lease. All we know is that it was 99 years.

The scenario mentioned regarding inheritance is our big concern.

Because the LR won't give full assurance that the lease can be removed - and the sellers solicitor is saying it's expired, with no evidence to say this - I won't do the retention.

The filing fee is £40, what if the request is denied and I cannot live in the property?

If they did an indemnity, would that cover the cost of the property or just the compensation for loss of value for just owning the freehold?

pretamang

I would advise you definitely hold out to get it sorted and the lease removed before you continue.

I was in (almost) a similar situation where I was purchasing a share of freehold flat, but the Land Registry showed that my seller didn't own it, only the lease. We were told by his solicitor: 'yes he definitely owns it, it's just not in his name, but it's effectively the same and all OK'. (pretty much the exact quote passed on!)

I didn't buy this and held out, made myself homeless (I was FTB trying to avoid paying rent and mortgage) and I ultimately had to walk away, go back into rented, and start searching over again. I'm glad I did, and only wished I'd given up on it sooner to start searching again.

The freehold situation was in fact a complete mess; the flat appeared back on the market almost a year later, this time only the lease for sale at a different asking price.

bigfoot371

Thanks Pretamang!

I've just spoken to EA and my Solicitor. PPL were instructed to file the papers on Friday, meaning the Land Reg could have responded by today.

They told my solicitor repeatedly 'it's being dealt with', but upon probing the eventually admitted nothing has been submitted.

I've asked EA (Tepilo) as the introducer, to raise this to the higher level they have.

I will be phoning hourly.

The seller is blissfully unaware and his it's just me being awkward.

Sellers Solicitor is telling all parties that the lease had expired, but not providing evidence.

AdrianC

Really, you have two choices.

* Buy it as is, and sort the lease later.
* Walk away.

You haven't mentioned what your lender thinks to all this.
Are you buying cash?
Is your lender aware and unbothered?

bigfoot371

AdrianC wrote: »

Really, you have two choices.

* Buy it as is, and sort the lease later.
* Walk away.

You haven't mentioned what your lender thinks to all this.
Are you buying cash?
Is your lender aware and unbothered?

Unsure if lender is aware, the money has been released tot he solicitors before my solicitor raised this with me. They say they requested it fixing a while ago - but aren't providing details.

davidmcn

bigfoot371 wrote: »

Unsure if lender is aware, the money has been released tot he solicitors before my solicitor raised this with me.

Doesn't mean anything other than the funds were requested before the last minute surprise. I doubt your solicitor will be happy to use the loan funds without the problem being fixed.

Hoploz

The lease cannot have 'expired' - it's 99 years from the 1960's!

I know it isn't going to happen, but surely with all I've read on here about lease extensions etc, if the leaseholder or their successor turned up and requested it, they could have a statutory lease extension of a further 90 years!? So the lease doesn't just dissolve into the mists of time until the 99 years is actually up.

bigfoot371

Hoploz wrote: »

The lease cannot have 'expired' - it's 99 years from the 1960's!

I know it isn't going to happen, but surely with all I've read on here about lease extensions etc, if the leaseholder or their successor turned up and requested it, they could have a statutory lease extension of a further 90 years!? So the lease doesn't just dissolve into the mists of time until the 99 years is actually up.

Oh joy.

Off to shop around storage units and buy close friends cake to line up somewhere to sleep.

Land_Registry

Hoploz has summed it up very well - even a lease which on the face of it has 'expired' may still provide the leaseholder/tenant/lessee with the right to get an extension granted.

From your posts the lease is presumably simply noted on the register and is not itself registered so you simply have the noted details to go by.

When the freehold was first registered the lease was noted only. If it had been sold at a later date for example that would have triggered the need to register it as well.

That implies that nothing has happened for some time so the odds of someone turning up ......... are small but still exist as Hoploz and AdrianC explain

Not too sure why the solicitors would therefore suggest it has 'expired'

And we won't confirm it can be removed until such time as an application is submitted with sufficient evidence to support the entries removal. Our PG26 offers some guidance on the myriad of ways a lease can be determined although I suspect sections 5 and 8 would be the ones to start with

So if you are buying it is all about the risks as mentioned already and who is prepared to shoulder that responsibility. In my experience that will rarely be you or your solicitor unless other factors can also come into play e.g. you really want the property. But no one scenario is the same so it should always be your legal advice you should turn to here.