Ireland moves to control rent rises

wolfplayer

It's not a matter of jealousy, although that's the standard BTLer playbook go-to tactic.

Each time a BTLer buys an investment property, they outbid a would-be OO and turn them into renters. It's about wanting opportunity for homeownership for working people, instead of them being outbid by rentiers.

A life of ownership + reaping investment profitz from housing as homeownership from <35s sinks to new lows.

Fine Mr Five Million Pounds, 'just jealous'.

Section 24 and SDLT surcharge is forcing some new reality on the BTLers.

Anyway you all keep pretending that BTL is a business. Why don't you ask HMRC about that. Section 24 is coming for many BTLers, and SDLT extra going to find out prices.

chucknorris

wolfplayer wrote: »

It's not a matter of jealousy, although that's the standard BTLer playbook go-to tactic.

Each time a BTLer buys an investment property, they outbid a would-be OO and turn them into renters. It's about wanting opportunity for homeownership for working people, instead of them being outbid by rentiers.

A life of ownership + reaping investment profitz from housing as homeownership from <35s sinks to new lows.

Fine Mr Five Million Pounds, 'just jealous'.

Section 24 and SDLT surcharge is forcing some new reality on the BTLers.

Anyway you all keep pretending that BTL is a business. Why don't you ask HMRC about that. Section 24 is coming for many BTLers, and SDLT extra going to find out prices.

The distinction between business and investment is only important when it comes to the tax implications, apart from that the distinction is really irrelevant, so I have no idea what point you are trying to make and why you are trying to make it. The cases that you have cited came about because property owners were trying to claim business tax reliefs. The Inland Revenue has to draw the line somewhere, and they have drawn it (mostly) treating property as an investment rather than a business.

However in the wider scope of things investment and business can be defined as:

Business: Providing goods and/or services to customers for profit, it is not passive like investment.

Investment: Investing in something that grows in value and/or provides an income, no customers are involved, it is mostly a passive action (although of course some people do things like ‘day trading’ with equities).

Clearly residential letting falls under business, because you are providing accommodation for profit, the tenants are customers. But as I said above the distinction is irrelevant except for claiming reliefs for tax purposes. As far as I can see, you don’t actually own any investment property, so I can only conclude that the distinction has become important to you because you have a massive chip on your shoulder. You somehow think that you are getting one over on property investors, by stating that it is not a business. But as far as I am concerned it is a business, and I will continue to operate it as such in a professional manner, and in a profitable way that also keeps my customers (tenants) satisfied.

Apodemus

chucknorris wrote: »

However in the wider scope of things investment and business can be defined as:

Business: Providing goods and/or services to customers for profit, it is not passive like investment.

Investment: Investing in something that grows in value and/or provides an income, no customers are involved, it is mostly a passive action (although of course some people do things like ‘day trading’ with equities).

Not a bad definition and the exception (day trading) proves the rule, as it clearly falls under the definition of business rather than investment, albeit a very risky and largely unprofitable business!

chucknorris

Apodemus wrote: »

Not a bad definition and the exception (day trading) proves the rule, as it clearly falls under the definition of business rather than investment, albeit a very risky and largely unprofitable business!

Yeah day trading would be far too risky for me to be comfortable with it. I don't even invest in single companies any more, I'm not saying that it is wrong to, I just want a more passive investment than that.

AG47

Governments tend to tax things that can't be hidden and moved, like property, in times of trouble, which is right now and getting worse in years to come......

caronoel

chucknorris wrote: »

Ahh that tells me that you and I have exchanged posts before, a quick search and I found this:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/25903517#Comment_25903517

Back in 2009 you predicted this:

Mr Norris, it will become the new normal. Falling rents and crashing house prices.

Chuck Norris gets wiped out by the market as rents crash and house prices crash.

:rotfl: You certainly got that spectacularly wrong, didn't you? If I remember correctly that was actually when the market picked up.

:T:T:T

Good spot chuck!!

London house prices are up more than 50% since that idiotic 2009 rant.




Message for Wolfie...

westernpromise

wolfplayer wrote: »

Each time a BTLer buys an investment property, they outbid a would-be OO and turn them into renters.

Only possible if the rent they pay exceeds the cost of capital. If it does, then they can afford to buy instead, and if they choose not they are knowingly incentivising the letting of property.

Tenants aren't victims, they are volunteers.

caronoel

westernpromise wrote: »

Only possible if the rent they pay exceeds the cost of capital. If it does, then they can afford to buy instead, and if they choose not they are knowingly incentivising the letting of property.

Tenants aren't victims, they are volunteers.

Yes, but when the crash comes next Tuesday, you will be stuffed and Wolfe will be well loaded

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

wolfplayer

Whether it's £5million BTL 'business' or BTLers here claiming it's an unprofitable 'business' (investment) and they are like some sort of charity. Get ready for Section24.

BTLers in general, I couldn't care less how you made out. Through your actions you were complicit in financial capture. You've picked sides already, and you favoured a horrid notion of yourself in splendid isolation over your ability to live equitably with your neighbour, (sorry, tenant), and damn the consequences. That speaks plainly to what you are.

Choice? Not really a choice between mad high house prices and BTLers outbidding ever stage of the way. Each time a BTLer buys a house, they turn a potential owner into a renter.

westernpromise

wolfplayer wrote: »

Get ready for Section24.

Net of the recent rate cut it's going to cost me less than one-third of one per cent of my income. BFD, as the young people say.

Each time a BTLer buys a house, they turn a potential owner into a renter.

What, every tenant wants to be a buyer? Not true, and even if it were, so what?