Ireland moves to control rent rises

wolfplayer

chucknorris wrote: »

[I honestly thought that you would have appreciated that loan interest is a perfectly legitimate business expense. I must add that I do agree that we are all in it together etc. but how come other businesses can still deduct their loan interest as an expense in full?

It doesn't actually affect me that much, but it still doesn't make it right, the withdrawal of the wear and tear allowance affected me more, but I can see the logic in that, so I have no problems with it, it was just bad luck to lose that benefit.

Because in most cases all the BTL crap is 'investment' not business whatsoever.

BTL. It's an investment which by its nature requires some activity to maintain.

Thrugelmir

wolfplayer wrote: »

Because in most cases all the BTL crap is 'investment' not business whatsoever.

BTL. It's an investment which by its nature requires some activity to maintain.

Letting property is a business, always has been. Without the requisite knowledge amateur landlords are the ones that suffer. As there's plenty of tenants that know the rules inside out.

chucknorris

wolfplayer wrote: »

Because in most cases all the BTL crap is 'investment' not business whatsoever.

BTL. It's an investment which by its nature requires some activity to maintain.

It is obviously a business, if you don't know that, I really don't know where to begin to explain it to you.

wolfplayer

chucknorris wrote: »

It is obviously a business, if you don't know that, I really don't know where to begin to explain it to you.

It's amazing how so many BTLers have spent years thinking they're in business. And some have gone so hard in.

No wonder HMRC is going to devour so many BTLers. Like raptors on the flock. CGT and their own homes to go for.

Judgment-ruling from 2002 as I understand it. Your investment relief is being scaled back is all, BTLers.

Therefore, the question boils down to whether a business is being carried on.

This was addressed in Rashid v Garcia (SpC 348), where the taxpayer argued that Class 2 was due on rental income (they were trying to claim some benefits). The taxpayer owned four let properties, including both residential and commercial lets, one of which was let to DSS tenants for lets of only a few weeks at a time. It was estimated that the taxpayer spent two to four hours a week and members of his family acting on his behalf spent 16 to 24 hours a week.

The Commissioner considered that there was insufficient activity for this to constitute a business and stated that:

‘…it is an investment which by its nature requires some activity to maintain it, rather than a business’.

https://www.property118.com/do-landlords-have-to-pay-class-2-national-insurance/63410/comment-page-5/#comments

2007

Is Mr Scraggs carrying on a business? 'You bet I am', he will readily retort. 'It's more hassle than selling dodgy second-hand motors. The rental income is earned by much hard work and time consuming effort and if that is not a business, what is?'

Is Mr Scraggs right? And why would he want to know?

The etymological chameleon
The whole problem with the word 'business' is that it means all things to all men. In a 1978 case not on tax matters, it was held that the word is an etymological chameleon: 'it suits its meaning to the context in which it is found'.

..........It was a sort of deeming provision. There is not quite the same deeming provision in the rewritten legislation, but the notes contain the following statement: 'Second, the concept of the “property business” is to a certain extent an artificial one. Unlike the term “trade” it may not always correspond to an activity organised in a way that the proprietor would necessarily describe as a business.

.....Unfortunately his appeal failed and the Special Commissioner summed up as follows: 'Standing back and looking at all the evidence although I think that the case is near the border line in the end I am not satisfied that there is sufficient activity for it to constitute a business. In my view, it is an investment which by its nature requires some activity to maintain it, rather than a business'.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yFD_Ft8JXJMJ:https://www.taxation.co.uk/articles/2007/11/08/5597/its-my-business+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

chucknorris

wolfplayer wrote: »

It's amazing how so many BTLers have spent years thinking they're in business. And some have gone so hard in.

No wonder HMRC is going to devour so many BTLers. Like raptors on the flock. CGT and their own homes to go for.

Judgment-ruling from 2002 as I understand it. Your investment relief is being scaled back is all, BTLers.



2007

I'm entering my end game now, we have just sold one (unmortgaged) property subject to contract, and I'll be putting another on the market next month, others will be sold as tenants vacate, so I don't think anyone will be devouring me anytime soon.

wolfplayer

Don't forget your CGT.

There are other BTLers and enjoy your gainz from your productive 'business' years. :rolleyes:

Maybe you can leave monies to animal charities yawn.

chucknorris

wolfplayer wrote: »

Don't forget your CGT.

There are other BTLers and enjoy your gainz from your productive 'business' years. :rolleyes:

Maybe you can leave monies to animal charities yawn.

I haven't forgotten the CGT, the current estimate is £850K (I wish it was twice that), paying CGT is a good (not bad) thing to have to do, and that is with quite bit mitigated by both PRR and also creating 'paper losses' switching share funds while they are down in value, to lock 'paper capital losses' in, to carry forward against future capital gains tax.

Next you'll be saying that my electrical contracting and racecourse bookmaking businesses (which I sold quite a few years ago) weren't businesses either.

chucknorris

wolfplayer wrote: »

Maybe you can leave monies to animal charities yawn.

Ahh that tells me that you and I have exchanged posts before, a quick search and I found this:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/25903517#Comment_25903517

Back in 2009 you predicted this:

Mr Norris, it will become the new normal. Falling rents and crashing house prices.

Chuck Norris gets wiped out by the market as rents crash and house prices crash.

:rotfl: You certainly got that spectacularly wrong, didn't you? If I remember correctly that was actually when the market picked up.

wolfplayer

Maybe so, but I'm wealthier too, and in position against many BTLers who are going to learn something about their investments, and in some instances their own homes, as they fall to owner-occupiers they've been outbidding for years.

chucknorris

wolfplayer wrote: »

Maybe so, but I'm wealthier too, and in position against many BTLers who are going to learn something about their investments, and in some instances their own homes, as they fall to owner-occupiers they've been outbidding for years.

I've never really been jealous or overly interested in what others have, all you should care about is your own financial situation. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder, it doesn't sound very balanced or healthy.