Notice to Keeper (Minster Baywatch, ANPR)

BindiBahji

Hi all

Received an NTK yesterday from Minster Baywatch alleging an overstay ("parking fee covering visit duration was not paid in full"). Their evidence is a photo from the ANPR cam taken on entry and another taken on exit.

The overstay they allege is slightly unusual: the purchased ticket is timed 45 mins after the alleged time of entry, and the time of exit is 4 mins after the purchased ticket 'expires'.

Am I right in thinking the best course of action initially is to respond with a fairly standard ANPR-type response mentioning:

• poor signage
• no evidence of authority to act on behalf of landowner
• don't name the driver

I intend to visit the car park asap to check the layout, signage etc.

The driver suffers from anxiety/depression - worth mentioning that at this stage?

pappa_golf

the purchased ticket is timed 45 mins after the alleged time of entry


the time of exit is 4 mins after the purchased ticket 'expires'.


run that by us again?


did the person buy a ticket within (say) 10 mins of arriving on the site , yes or no ?

BindiBahji

pappa_golf wrote: »

did the person buy a ticket within (say) 10 mins of arriving on the site , yes or no ?

Apparently they parked, discovered they had no change and went off to get some, so almost certainly no.

It seems they did not realise that the car park was ANPR and assumed it was warden patrolled.

pappa_golf

the codes of practice used by both the the ATAs suggest (about) 10 mins after entry to read , digest the signage and to decide to stay (pay) or leave the site


HOWEVER


the signage in the car park should clearly state that ANPR is in use and state what reason it being used for


if you did not see this information , then its obvious that the signage was unclear

BindiBahji

I have now visited the site and taken some photos.

The signage is poor and the main sign is placed parallel to the street so you don't get chance to read it before you turn into the entrance.

As well as the sign at the entrance/exit there are two additional very small signs placed high up on the wall of the adjoining building. Many areas of the car park have no sign within readable range. The lettering on the main sign is very small in places, no more than 10mm high.

Umkomaas

Appeal using the blue text template from the newbies FAQ sticky to elicit a rejection and POPLA code. You will need to get this beaten at POPLA, you won't get any appeal won directly with MB.

Then do your research and preparation for submitting a POPLA appeal towards the middle of December.

BindiBahji

pappa_golf wrote: »

the signage in the car park should clearly state that ANPR is in use and state what reason it being used for

The only mention of ANPR I could see on the main sign is in the small print, positioned below waist level: "This car park is controlled by ANPR cameras and / or warden patrol." with a graphic alongside that looks like a CCTV camera.

Carthesis

That notice of the £100 charge doesn't pass the Red-Hand Test.

It doesn't mention anything about how soon or otherwise you have to purchase a ticket.

Logic (hah!) would suggest that as long as the parking period paid for covered the total amount of time in the car-park (i.e. you pulled in, parked, went elsewhere for 45 mins, came back, paid for an hours parking, then left) that there is no actual loss incurred.

Coupon-mad

Yep the £100 is hidden in the small print - and do the t&cs at the top include 'overstay' as a contravention or mention what maximum time as a 'grace period' is allowed in that car park to get a ticket after reading the signs (minimum ten mins at that arrival stage alone, is mandatory in the BPA CoP).

When you get to POPLA stage (not yet, the first appeal is an easy short template) this example I wrote on pepipoo would be a start as your base for appeal wording for POPLA (deliberately long):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=109215

It would need the name of the parking firm changing of course (proof reading and tweaking of irrelevant words is your job!) and you can add:

Grace Periods allowed by the BPA Code of Practice not contravened (search the forum for 'Grace Periods POPLA' to find that wording for that point, which needs to quote the CoP)

Fruitcake

They say that credit cards WILL incur a charge. That puts the total over 100 quid which is a breach of the BPA CoP.

Do the signs show premium rate 'phone numbers? They are also prohibited.

BindiBahji

Carthesis wrote: »

Logic (hah!) would suggest that as long as the parking period paid for covered the total amount of time in the car-park (i.e. you pulled in, parked, went elsewhere for 45 mins, came back, paid for an hours parking, then left) that there is no actual loss incurred.

Assuming the ANPR timestamps are correct, the total time in the car park exceeds the time paid for by approx 45mins

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yep the £100 is hidden in the small print - and do the t&cs at the top include 'overstay' as a contravention or mention what maximum time as a 'grace period' is allowed in that car park to get a ticket after reading the signs (minimum ten mins at that arrival stage alone, is mandatory in the BPA CoP).

No specific mention of overstay, but it does state "All users must pay the appropriate fee for the duration of their visit..." No mention of a grace period at all.

Fruitcake wrote: »

They say that credit cards WILL incur a charge. That puts the total over 100 quid which is a breach of the BPA CoP.

Thanks, that's a useful point to mention at the POPLA stage

Fruitcake wrote: »

Do the signs show premium rate 'phone numbers? They are also prohibited.

No, the main sign shows a local geographic number