F1rst Parking PCN - Winchester University

Coupon-mad

Name and address of the keeper is certainly needed. just do not say who was driving.

Umkomaas

Brilliant, I will appeal in the next few days, unless that is too early.

Don't 'bolt' too early - read the newbies FAQ sticky about getting your timing right. 26 days if the PPC's appeal process is via electronic communication, around day 23 if it's snail mail (with free Cert of Posting from your PO counter).

Make sure you follow the PPC process as detailed on the ticket, so you don't give them the opportunity to ignore the appeal based on not following their process, then you'll have an uphill struggle to get a POPLA code, exposing you to up to 6 years of hassle from them.

AlexTodd97

Another week, another PCN.
Today I received another ticket for reason "Not paid for the full duration of stay".
I had a permit on the way and was told to store the confirmation email in my screen, which I did and they have evidenced. Something to note straight away is the signage they have used for evidence.
This states they will issue a PCN for not displaying a valid permit. They did not give me the PCN for this reason. It also doesn't mention paying on their signage they used as evidence.
See Signage here : [IMG]http://*imgur.com/cQSQDuu[/IMG] - remove the *

My question is really whether I can/should use the same template appeal so the first PCN (see above). Would I get away with that?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Yes indeedy. But as ever, wait till day 23 if posting an appeal or day 26/27 if submitting it electronically.

They are useless aren't they?!

Not only does the sign only cover permits and nothing else, so no charge can arise from other parking behaviour, but if 'the driver' was told by the principal (landowner, the Uni?) to show the confirmation email in the windscreen, then a defence of 'promissory estoppel' applies.

Google it while you are waiting from your rejection letters. Can you email the University permit issuers and ask for them to confirm that they did tell you that any driver of your car (be vague, never say who parked, it could have been me!) should simply display the email which would be acceptable in lieu of a permit, as a temporary authorisation?

I would get that if you can - very useful if in writing. No phone calls.

Do not say who was driving if a letter arrives begging to be told.

Start researching POPLA appeal points by searching 'F1rst POPLA' but only read 2016 examples. There are also some deliberately long and detailed POPLA 'template' appeal points added in September in 'POPLA Decisions'.

AlexTodd97

I have got an email now confirming that they gave me temp authorisation to park using the confirmation email.

"Hi Alex, The approval email is enough to allow you to park on site in the manner outlined in the Parking Regulations i.e. inside a white lined bay etc."

Having looked at the university parking guidelines, it does state something along the lines of this, regarding parking within the white lines.

Does this hold any weight in my case, even though the signs do not state anything like this?

Coupon-mad

I would keep that back - not as useful as it could be - as it only says 'if parked within white lines'.

If you were 'on top' of a white line I'd say that's not OUTSIDE of a bay anyway.

AlexTodd97

Thank you,

So do the university "Guidelines" act as "terms and conditions"?
Because as you know, the signage only claims a PCN will be issued for not displaying a valid permit.
Trying to understand, if for instance it goes to POPLA, they will claim i have gone against the university parking guidelines, instead of the car park signage.

Umkomaas

Parking signage terms and conditions form the basis of any 'contract'. If a total stranger rocked up and parked there, it would only be the signage they would have access to, not some hidden in-house guidelines.

Coupon-mad

AlexTodd97 wrote: »

Thank you,

So do the university "Guidelines" act as "terms and conditions"?
Because as you know, the signage only claims a PCN will be issued for not displaying a valid permit.
Trying to understand, if for instance it goes to POPLA, they will claim i have gone against the university parking guidelines, instead of the car park signage.

The parking firm might try, even more reason to hold that email back and keep it out of the equation. Keep it under your hat completely, might be useful if ever you get another PCN, this time for 'not displaying a permit' when you've instead displayed the authorising email.

As you say, the signs form the contract and they only talk about a charge arising re permit display. They can't try to bolt on random extra terms after the contract/parking event is concluded.

I won a case for a friend where the signs only talked about 'permits' and she was penalised by a notorious little firm of ex-clampers, for her Pay & Display ticket slipping. POPLA agreed that the signs only related to permits (she parked right under a sign!) but the POPLA appeal still won because there were no terms creating any other contract term except regarding permits, so no charge arose.

That POPLA decision is here, with the POPLA code to quote in support of your case too:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70719279#Comment_70719279

''This signage refers to permits and does not mention pay and display tickets. As such, it is reasonable to expect had the appellant seen this signage, she would not be aware that this refers to her, as she was using a pay and display ticket. It appears that this signage only relates to permits.

From the evidence provided by both the operator and the appellant, the signage in the site is conflicting and unclear.
I am not satisfied from the evidence provided, that the signage at the location meets the requirements of the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice and as such, the appellant has not been able to see, read and understand the terms and conditions in order to fully comply with them.''

AlexTodd97

Brilliant thank you!
Having read the assessors decision, i think i have have a similar appeal point in the case of "Entrance signs" - I have never seen one.

I shall investigate when i am next there.