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Should I be claiming for unfair dismissal ?

Hi all,
I've just been made redundant after almost 10 years in the company, my role as digital marketeer to be outsourced to an agency, the reasons provided being, expansion of my role which would be too much for one person, cost saving and cover for when I'm on holidays or ill ( both rare events ! )
I've been paid the minimum redundancy payment for the amount of time I've been there but am I being a walkover ?
I have been advised, non professionally, that I have a claim for unfair dismissal under TUPE rules ?
Part oxf me doesn't want to burn my bridges but then again I could do with every penny !

Replies

  • spugh wrote: »
    Hi all,
    I've just been made redundant after almost 10 years in the company, my role as digital marketeer to be outsourced to an agency, the reasons provided being, expansion of my role which would be too much for one person, cost saving and cover for when I'm on holidays or ill ( both rare events ! )
    I've been paid the minimum redundancy payment for the amount of time I've been there but am I being a walkover ?
    I have been advised, non professionally, that I have a claim for unfair dismissal under TUPE rules ?
    Part oxf me doesn't want to burn my bridges but then again I could do with every penny !

    Hi, my first point of call would be to look on ACAS website, make some notes then speak with them.

    I think theres a time limit for a unfair dismissal claim aswell, there also a fee to pay i think as i say speak to ACAS.
  • From what you have posted there appears to be a claim in there - most likely for unfair dismissal related to TUPE


    As a basic principle, the company cannot simply outsource work and kick you out. The receiving company (ie the company taking on the work) would usually have to take on the employee/s who currently perform the tasks. Not to be offered at least the opportunity to go across 'with the work' to the receiving company would likely be a breach of TUPE regs.


    I take it you were not offered the chance to do that? My advice is to get a 20 min consultation with a local employment lawyer - most won't charge you anything for a quick chat and I think you have something worth discussing.
  • Im not convinced. If your role is no longer in existence then your role is redundant, no similar role exists.


    Similar work is being done for the business by an outside provider.


    Now I am still learning on this topic, so someone may correct me (or many people) but this does seem like a reasonable situation.
  • theEndtheEnd Forumite
    851 Posts
    See a solicitor. Looks like TUPE to me.

    They could maybe argue that the role is changing/expanding so much that it doesn't relate to the original role, but I'm not sure they'll win.
  • There's an awful lot of certainty here based on almost no facts.

    If you can find a solicitor, do get advice, but be cautious of any such certainty from a lawyer who will want a bill paying. You pay that, plus tribunal fees, whatever happens! If you can get no win no fee advic, art least see what they say, and if they are interested, READ EVERY WORD of anything they want you to sign, because there's a lot of small print!

    But I would like to know exactly what is being outsourced, because an EXPANDED role is not your role, it is a different role, and a job that you don't do. Outsourcing may indeed activate TUPE. It also may not, and there are many examples of situations where it doesn't. One of those would be where the service being purchased is significantly different from the existing in house provision, to the extent that the existing job is, indeed, redundant, and the post is made redundant before the transfer or immediately afterwards.

    How large is this employer? Is there any union involvement? Are you in a union?
  • I said it sounds like a TUPE claim not that it was for certain. However I stand by those comments


    As an HR Director I've dealt with a lot of these. The general principle from a company standpoint is that its quite risky to blithely assert TUPE does not exist (or ignore it) if there is half an argument it does apply - the penalties for not consulting on/allowing for TUPE can be quite harsh.


    The OP said that work to be outsourced could not (apparently) be done by one person. That is not necessarily a single expanded role. It sounds equally plausible that the current work will be fulfilled by an individual and other (perhaps new) elements picked up by further person or individuals. Either way, the burden of proof ultimately lies with the company not the OP.


    As I say, any reputable lawyer will grant a short free consultation. Do not be afraid to discuss your case here as you may well have a decent shout. Please note also that, most firms faced with a decent claim properly outlined by a competent lawyer will seek to settle well before tribunal.
  • I said it sounds like a TUPE claim not that it was for certain. However I stand by those comments


    As an HR Director I've dealt with a lot of these. The general principle from a company standpoint is that its quite risky to blithely assert TUPE does not exist (or ignore it) if there is half an argument it does apply - the penalties for not consulting on/allowing for TUPE can be quite harsh.


    The OP said that work to be outsourced could not (apparently) be done by one person. That is not necessarily a single expanded role. It sounds equally plausible that the current work will be fulfilled by an individual and other (perhaps new) elements picked up by further person or individuals. Either way, the burden of proof ultimately lies with the company not the OP.


    As I say, any reputable lawyer will grant a short free consultation. Do not be afraid to discuss your case here as you may well have a decent shout. Please note also that, most firms faced with a decent claim properly outlined by a competent lawyer will seek to settle well before tribunal.

    And as a trade union official I have also dealt with a lot of them. Redundancy, behind or after an outsourcing of a service is quite common. That is not to say that it is the case here, but employers are not as scared of TUPE as you imply. Any decent employer can deal with one competently.

    And yes, a competent lawyer could perhaps force a settlement whatever the case is. But my observation was to watch your bill. Because there will be one. There is no legal aid. And I too often see lawyers happy to rack up a bill that amounts to more than what people get. Hence the question about a unio. They will represent a decent case for free. And pay the £1250 that a tribunal now visits to claim. If one needs to consult a lawyer, no win no fee have benefits in that they are ruthlessly honest. They can't afford to take an unattainable claim. So they'll tell you the absolute truth.

    And the OP needs to balance the cost and the risk. As soon as the employer gets wind of the claim, they can probably kiss a reference goodbye. So they need to be very sure of winning.
  • MEM62MEM62 Forumite
    4K Posts
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Forumite
    If this is a direct transfer of your job function I would speak with your employer and advise that you look forward to joining their new subcontractor (on whatever date the contract commences) and ask where and to whom you should report for work.

    Of course this isn't likely to get you anywhere but it will certainly encourage them to consider the TUPE implications. It may even give you a slightly stronger position in negotiating your leaving settlement.
  • You are entirely correct that Redundancy on the back of a TUPE is common - I have done large numbers of these myself


    The OP strongly implies however that he was not even consulted about TUPE when it appears there may be a case this is a TUPE scenario.


    The protective award for not consulting on a TUPE is up to 90 days pay. As such (and to reiterate) its worth a (free) chat with an employment lawyer. I understand your concern re costs but surely you agree the OP should look into this?
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