MSE News: Refunds for packed trains and broken toilets now a possibility

Legacy_user

Train passengers may now be able to claim a refund for issues other than delays – such as overcrowding and broken loos...

Read the full story:
'Refunds for packed trains and broken toilets now a possibility following legal extension – what you need to know'

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50Twuncle

Some 30years ago, I went from Portsmouth to Glasgow on a rail journey in which 2nd class was totally full (overflowing) - so I sat in a virtually empty 1st class carriage - all of the time, I was on edge - expecting the ticket collector to kick me out - but he didn't !
Could someone please confirm whether the fact that 2nd class was full is a valid reason to use 1st class ?
And on what grounds could someone be kicked our ?

agrinnall

50Twuncle wrote: »

Could someone please confirm whether the fact that 2nd class was full is a valid reason to use 1st class ?
And on what grounds could someone be kicked our ?

I don't believe it is, and you could be kicked out on the grounds of not having a valid ticket for the class of travel (or asked to pay an additional fare). When you can sit is 1st is when directed to do so by a member of the train staff, although of course there's nothing to stop you asking rather than waiting to be told (assuming you actually see a member of staff that is).

50Twuncle

agrinnall wrote: »

I don't believe it is, and you could be kicked out on the grounds of not having a valid ticket for the class of travel (or asked to pay an additional fare). When you can sit is 1st is when directed to do so by a member of the train staff, although of course there's nothing to stop you asking rather than waiting to be told (assuming you actually see a member of staff that is).

But surely - the train company has a responsibility for getting a ticket holding customer from A to B - and if they have not provided enough seats in enough carriages for a particular journey - especially when a 1st class carriage is virtually empty - the ticket collector (or whoever) would have a hard job giving their reasons for not allowing the customer to remain in 1st class - should it come to court ?
I remember - getting some weird looks from "obvious" normal 1st class passengers - when a 20 something year old got into "their" carriage - although nobody said anything !
As for paying an additional fare - what if (as was the case) - I had no more money with me - would I have been kicked off the train - in the middle of nowhere ?

stragglebod

50Twuncle wrote: »

But surely - the train company has a responsibility for getting a ticket holding customer from A to B - and if they have not provided enough seats in enough carriages for a particular journey - especially when a 1st class carriage is virtually empty - the ticket collector (or whoever) would have a hard job giving their reasons for not allowing the customer to remain in 1st class - should it come to court ?
I remember - getting some weird looks from "obvious" normal 1st class passengers - when a 20 something year old got into "their" carriage - although nobody said anything !
As for paying an additional fare - what if (as was the case) - I had no more money with me - would I have been kicked off the train - in the middle of nowhere ?

If you've not paid for 1st class, you've got no right to sit in first class. If you get caught you'll - if you're lucky - get charged a penalty fare, which would be twice the price of a first class single.

If the inspector thought you were deliberately fair dodging - which of course you would be - or you didn't have the money to pay a penalty fare, then you'd be reported for possible prosecution, which would be much much more expensive if you were able to negotiate a settlement out of court, and astrnomonically more expensive if it went to court.

50Twuncle

stragglebod wrote: »

If you've not paid for 1st class, you've got no right to sit in first class. If you get caught you'll - if you're lucky - get charged a penalty fare, which would be twice the price of a first class single.

If the inspector thought you were deliberately fair dodging - which of course you would be - or you didn't have the money to pay a penalty fare, then you'd be reported for possible prosecution, which would be much much more expensive if you were able to negotiate a settlement out of court, and astrnomonically more expensive if it went to court.

What about "Duty of Care" - doesn't that count for anything
Needless to say - I haven't been on a train for 25 + years and very much doubt whether I ever will again !

Mids_Costcutter

Sometimes when overcrowded the guard will declassify first class, announcing that passengers with standard class tickets may sit there. When they decide to do this I'd like to know as in my experience it seems to be a bit random.

Furthermore how the Consumer Rights Act could be interpreted for overcrowding could be tricky. Any more news on this?

Rail_Staff

I'm afraid you pay to travel from one place to another, you do not pay for a seat. In the course of my duties I am obliged to remove people from first class pretty much every day unless they purchase a new ticket, there is frequently a sudden exodus from first class when I walk in asking for tickets!

Sitting in first on the understanding that the worst that can happen is that you pay difference is also a thing of the past. At best you'll be buying a whole new ticket, at worst you'll soon be seeing a magistrate.

50Twuncle

Rail_Staff wrote: »

I'm afraid you pay to travel from one place to another, you do not pay for a seat. In the course of my duties I am obliged to remove people from first class pretty much every day unless they purchase a new ticket, there is frequently a sudden exodus from first class when I walk in asking for tickets!

Sitting in first on the understanding that the worst that can happen is that you pay difference is also a thing of the past. At best you'll be buying a whole new ticket, at worst you'll soon be seeing a magistrate.

Well - the Consumer Rights Act 2017 offers Rail companies a choice of either upgrading customers at the companys expense or a refund - guess which they will probably have to offer ?

Stoke

Rail_Staff wrote: »

I'm afraid you pay to travel from one place to another, you do not pay for a seat. In the course of my duties I am obliged to remove people from first class pretty much every day unless they purchase a new ticket, there is frequently a sudden exodus from first class when I walk in asking for tickets!

Sitting in first on the understanding that the worst that can happen is that you pay difference is also a thing of the past. At best you'll be buying a whole new ticket, at worst you'll soon be seeing a magistrate.

I just avoid paying for tickets altogether these days, better value..... certainly until London Midland refund me the journey in January last year, in-which they left me stranded in sub zero temperatures with no way of getting home and no way of getting anywhere safe really.

They refused my refund. So I refuse to pay for future journeys. Works well I reckon.

50Twuncle

Stoke wrote: »

I just avoid paying for tickets altogether these days, better value..... certainly until London Midland refund me the journey in January last year, in-which they left me stranded in sub zero temperatures with no way of getting home and no way of getting anywhere safe really.

They refused my refund. So I refuse to pay for future journeys. Works well I reckon.

And you accepted this decision did you ?