Moving out of rented house

monkeychops

Me and OH have been in a rented house for almost 12 years. In that time our landlord has not spent a penny on the house.

If we asked him about anything he would say he would think about it or he couldn't afford it so we would have to wait but then never mention it again.

He was good in that he didn't put the rent up for about 10 years and he did let us off 2 months rent when we had money problems which amounted to around £1,500. He said it was on the understanding that we lost our deposit which , at the time, seemed fair enough

Over the 12 years we have spent quite a bit of money on repairs and making the house nice for us to live in. OH put in a new bathroom because the original was disgusting. He also replaced the boiler when it packed up.

We have decorated every room and laid new flooring in every room - some rooms carpet, some tiles and some laminate flooring. The living room carpet absolutely stunk of dog pee when we moved in so we had no choice but to take it up. As the stairs are in the living room it meant carpeting them and the landing too. We did tell our landlord about the carpet but he kept dragging his feet and after living for months with bare floors we just bought some.

There was a double oven and hob when we moved in but they packed up and since then we are on the 2nd oven we have bought and first hob.

We replaced the curtains in every room to match the new colour scheme we did and also his curtains were old and threadbare. The place badly needed decorating as it was shabby and 2 of the bedrooms had felt tip drawn all over the walls.

Anyway we will be moving out at the end of the year and OH seems to think we will have to leave things like the oven, hob, curtains etc. I don't see why as we bought them and we are buying a place so will need them.

Also we are not getting our deposit back because of the £1,500 he let us off of but we have paid out a lot of money over the years. I was keeping a record but haven't for a couple of years but it already totalled over £7,000.

I feel he has already done well out of us. The house is in good repair and nicely decorated. Obviously all the carpets and flooring will be staying so new tenants will be getting a much nicer house than we did when we first rented from him.

I should add that our tenancy is for unfurnished. So should we be leaving oven, hob, curtains etc?

AdrianC

You moved in to a property with a cooker and curtains and we have to assume that they are documented on an inventory signed by you and him at the time, so - yes - you should leave them, and he will be able to claim from you if they aren't left. You have no deposit, so he would have to issue a court claim to recover the value of the cooker and curtains that were in the property when you moved in - except that will be zero, since their depreciation over the 12 years you've been resident will have wiped out any value in them, even if they were brand new at the time, which they weren't.

Guest101

AdrianC wrote: »

You moved in to a property with a cooker and curtains and we have to assume that they are documented on an inventory signed by you and him at the time, so - yes - you should leave them, and he will be able to claim from you if they aren't left. You have no deposit, so he would have to issue a court claim to recover the value of the cooker and curtains that were in the property when you moved in - except that will be zero, since their depreciation over the 12 years you've been resident will have wiped out any value in them, even if they were brand new at the time, which they weren't.

In other words, take it with you.

monkeychops

AdrianC wrote: »

You moved in to a property with a cooker and curtains and we have to assume that they are documented on an inventory signed by you and him at the time, so - yes - you should leave them, and he will be able to claim from you if they aren't left. You have no deposit, so he would have to issue a court claim to recover the value of the cooker and curtains that were in the property when you moved in - except that will be zero, since their depreciation over the 12 years you've been resident will have wiped out any value in them, even if they were brand new at the time, which they weren't.

No, we never got an inventory. He just bought a tenancy agreement from WH Smith and we and he signed that. It was for 1 year and he never gave us another one until he put the rent up 10 years later!

Guest101

monkeychops wrote: »

No, we never got an inventory. He just bought a tenancy agreement from WH Smith and we and he signed that. It was for 1 year and he never gave us another one until he put the rent up 10 years later!

Nothing wrong with that, infact it's the correct procedure (unless you requested another fixed term)

AdrianC

monkeychops wrote: »

No, we never got an inventory.

Then he can't even demonstrate to a court that there was ever a cooker or curtains in the property in the first place.

G_M

monkeychops wrote: »

Me and OH have been in a rented house for almost 12 years. In that time our landlord has not spent a penny on the house.
sorry - not relevant

......

He was good in that he didn't put the rent up for about 10 years
Wow!
and he did let us off 2 months rent when we had money problems which amounted to around £1,500. He said it was on the understanding that we lost our deposit which , at the time, seemed fair enough
What happened regarding the deposit registration? Or was the deposit never registered? If so,
* what was the exact date the tenancy started?
* what was the type of tenancy at the start? Fixed term? If so, exact dates please?
* did you sign regular new tenancy agreemets (eg 12 monthly)?
* or did the tenancy become periodic (rolling) at a later date? If so, exact date

all the above Qs are relevant regarding the legal position regarding the deposit


Over the 12 years we have spent quite a bit of money on repairs and making the house nice for us to live in.
I trust all changes were with the landlord's permission? Written?
OH put in a new bathroom because the original was disgusting. He also replaced the boiler when it packed up.
Fair enough - though you said above "our landlord has not spent a penny on the house. " ????!!

We have decorated every room and laid new flooring in every room - some rooms carpet, some tiles and some laminate flooring. The living room carpet absolutely stunk of dog pee when we moved in so we had no choice but to take it up. As the stairs are in the living room it meant carpeting them and the landing too. We did tell our landlord about the carpet but he kept dragging his feet and after living for months with bare floors we just bought some.
I trust all changes were with the landlord's permission? Written?

There was a double oven and hob when we moved in but they packed up and since then we are on the 2nd oven we have bought and first hob.
Where is he LL's oven now? If you disposed of it, did you get the LL's permission? Written?

We replaced the curtains in every room to match the new colour scheme we did and also his curtains were old and threadbare. The place badly needed decorating as it was shabby and 2 of the bedrooms had felt tip drawn all over the walls.
I trust all changes were with the landlord's permission? Written?

Anyway we will be moving out at the end of the year and OH seems to think we will have to leave things like the oven, hob, curtains etc. I don't see why as we bought them and we are buying a place so will need them.
There were oven, hob, curtains etc when you moved in, so there should be oven, hob, curtains etc when you move out.
Simple.

Also we are not getting our deposit back because of the £1,500 he let us off of
Since that was the agreement, that is the situation!
but we have paid out a lot of money over the years.
Your choice
I was keeping a record but haven't for a couple of years but it already totalled over £7,000.
If you choose to spend money on things, that is up to you. Not relevant when it comes to the deposit which you agreed to forfeit in place of rent you owed.

I feel he has already done well out of us. The house is in good repair and nicely decorated. Obviously all the carpets and flooring will be staying so new tenants will be getting a much nicer house than we did when we first rented from him.
Then negotiate. But this is a matter for mutual agreement - NOT a matter of legal rights.

I should add that our tenancy is for unfurnished. So should we be leaving oven, hob, curtains etc?

'Unfurnished' has no legal definition. Since the items were there when you moved in they should be there when you move out, unless some other agreement was, or is, reached with the landord.

However I note there was no original inventory, so whilst it would be lying, immoral, and possibly theft, you could claim: " Oven? What oven? There was never an oven."

Voyager2002

In practice, I suggest that you take whatever you believe is yours. If the landlord is unhappy he is welcome to write to you. From what you say about his behaviour over the last few years he is highly unlikely to go to the trouble of taking you to court: if he did so, he would lose.

booksurr

monkeychops wrote: »

I feel he has already done well out of us. The house is in good repair and nicely decorated. Obviously all the carpets and flooring will be staying so new tenants will be getting a much nicer house than we did when we first rented from him.

so what, you did not have a rent increase for 10 years so you and your LL are all square, you paid for some stuff and he did not increase the rent. I'll bet that overall you have still done better than your LL would had he put the rent up each year. There are times when a desire for revenge is understandable, there are others when it is better to accept that things balance out.

your stance when you leave is a matter of how much of a gamble do you want to take on the LL taking court action against you.

Your LL is entitled to receive back the property in the condition he provided it to you. So a house with carpet, curtains and white goods etc. If they were manky when you moved in then they can be manky when you move out, although the absence of an inventory does mean the LL has limited evidence of what he provided to start with.

The fact you chose to replace the LL's property with your own does not remove your liability for returning his property to him (it's theft if you don't) unless you have written agreement that he did not want it kept. It is your choice to leave behind fittings which are better quality than the LL would be entitled to if you had simply returned his original stuff, you don't score points from doing that.

G_M

Doing some maths:

* 12 years so you moved in 2004?
* 1 year fixed term till 2005?
* then periodic (rolling) thereafter?
* deposit leglislation was introduced 2007 and tenancies created before then did not require registration unless they became periodic after 2007, which does not seem to be the case here.

AdrianC

G_M wrote: »

Doing some maths:

* 12 years so you moved in 2004?
* 1 year fixed term till 2005?
* then periodic (rolling) thereafter?
* deposit leglislation was introduced 2007 and tenancies created before then did not require registration unless they became periodic after 2007, which does not seem to be the case here.

Either way, it's not really relevant, is it? After all, there is no current deposit.