Jointly Owned Property- Care Home Fees

Rosy_Apple

Hi,

I appreciate this is a little vague but if anyone could assist that would be fantastic.

My parents (both late 50's) own 50% of a house with my Grandma owning the other 50%. They all lived in this house until my Grandma moved permanently to a care home.

If it is decided that my Grandma's share of the house needs to be used to pay for care (still tbc), can my parents be forced to move out and sell the house? Or can a charge be put on the property until they decide to sell.

Essentially- can they at any point be forced to sell the property against their will to pay for the care home?

Many thanks.

Keep_pedalling

I don't think anyone can give a definitive answer here, because it is not street forward. If you parents were in their 60's the house would be disregarded but that is not the case, although the LA still have discretion to disregard in this type of case.

A forced sale would need to go through the courts so even if the council tried to do this it might fall down there.

Rosy_Apple

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

I don't think anyone can give a definitive answer here, because it is not street forward. If you parents were in their 60's the house would be disregarded but that is not the case, although the LA still have discretion to disregard in this type of case.

A forced sale would need to go through the courts so even if the council tried to do this it might fall down there.

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate I asked a nearly impossible to answer question.

They have been given so much conflicting information from the social workers, solicitors (even the various solicitors they speak to can't agree) and charities such as Age UK. It seems like it is a minefield of legislation and the law is liable to interpretation with lots of grey areas.

My main concern is that I really don't want my parents to be in a position where they are forced to sell their home. An already terribly sad situation with my Grandma, is now also fraught with stress.

Thank you again.

Keep_pedalling

I think this sort of case is quite a rare, if your parents owned half the house but we're living else where then it would be staight forward.

How near their 60th birthday is you oldest parent? Does your grandmother have any other assets to pay for her care?

Do they have the means to buy out your GMs share of the house?

greyfox

This situation isn't that unusual, in fact.

The first thing to be aware of is that the value of a half share in a property isn't the same as half the value of the whole property. Unfortunately, the LAs tend to "forget" this when they do the assessment. If they've just used half the value in the assessment (or, even worse, just told your Grandmother/parents that they can't help because of the property, without doing an actual assessment) there are grounds for a challenge. In some cases, the share has little or no actual value as no-one would be willing to buy it.

There's an Age Uk factsheet here http://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/en-gb/factsheets/fs38_treatment_of_property_in_the_means-test_for_permanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true
The section on jointly-owned property is about a third of the way down.

There was an article in the Guardian a few years ago which explains things in plainer English! (The rules haven't changed since). https://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/may/25/jointly-owned-home-sold-care

Hope this helps

Rosy_Apple

greyfox wrote: »

This situation isn't that unusual, in fact.

.

.

greyfox

Well, I've searched the UK Parliament site & can't find any amendments to the Charging Regulations. The current version is the 2014 set here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/2672/pdfs/uksi_20142672_en.pdf

jointly-owned property is at regulation 24

There is provision for property to be treated as owned in equal shares unless there is evidence to the contrary but nothing about giving a share an unreal value. (Many, many years ago – I’m talking 20 or 30 - there had been an attempt to do this in the regulations but it was thrown out as unlawful.)

The current version of the guidance which the Social Workers should be following (known as CRAG) is here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/301250/CRAG_34_April_2014.pdf
paras 7.017-7.020

I've had a look for any amendments to that, too, but none found.

I can only suggest that you call the Social Worker's bluff. Quote the relevant bits of law & CRAG to her & ask her to quote chapter & verse of the "change to the rules".

Good luck.

missbiggles1

Rosy_Apple wrote: »

They will both be 60 in 2018, the first birthday being in June. They have already been told that the house is not being disregarded.

My Grandmother has money c.£20k in her bank account but that would be it. Unfortunately my parents don't have the means to buy her out. They spent a fair amount of money to adapt the house when they bought half, including some safeguarding for my Grandmother.

The original idea was that they bought the other person who lived there out so they could care for my Grandmother and prevent her having to go into a care home. Unfortunately, her Dementia has reached a point that has made that impossible.

Thank you again.

Could they raise a mortgage to buy her out or sell the house (if required) and downsize to something smaller?

Rosy_Apple

greyfox wrote: »

Well, I've searched the UK Parliament site & can't find any amendments to the Charging Regulations. The current version is the 2014 set here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/2672/pdfs/uksi_20142672_en.pdf

jointly-owned property is at regulation 24

There is provision for property to be treated as owned in equal shares unless there is evidence to the contrary but nothing about giving a share an unreal value. (Many, many years ago – I’m talking 20 or 30 - there had been an attempt to do this in the regulations but it was thrown out as unlawful.)

The current version of the guidance which the Social Workers should be following (known as CRAG) is here
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/301250/CRAG_34_April_2014.pdf
paras 7.017-7.020

I've had a look for any amendments to that, too, but none found.

I can only suggest that you call the Social Worker's bluff. Quote the relevant bits of law & CRAG to her & ask her to quote chapter & verse of the "change to the rules".

Good luck.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me. I shall have a look at this and suggest my parents talk with the social worker again.

Thanks again.