Parking Ticket on Private Land

silverpablito

My car received a ticket in a pub car park. The driver hasnt used the pub before. They did not see any signs. You pay £1 to park and then get the £1 back at the bar when you buy a drink. The driver was a customer at the pub. The pub is not near a town centre/shops Etc. and you would not expect it to have parking restrictions. The defence will be on the basis that signage is inadequate. When you enter the pub car park from the road there is a sign close to the road but quite high up. When driving in it is difficult to see. There are also two pub advertising boards either side of the entrance at ground level and so these distract your attention anyway. In the car park are a number of parking signs on a wooden fence surrounding the car park but if vehicles are parked in front of the signs, particularly vans or SUVs you will not see the signs or they will be partialy obscured. If you park in the rear car park and walk in the rear of the pub, which the driver did, you do not see or pass the pay and display machine. There is no signage in the pub warning drivers and no mention of it by staff.
I have written to the pub owners as the keeper and they have refused to cancel the ticket and told me to deal with their agents Local Parking Security Ltd.
I have not identified the driver to anyone. The initial ticket was ignored and I responded to the notice to keeper. I wrote a letter to LPS asking:
1. The basis of their claim
2. The actual loss
3. Their status as creditor
4. Who the owner of the land is
5. Their contractual Authority and a copy of their contract
6. Details of the signage at the property including a plan
7. Re signage, I asked if they agreed that; anyone entering the car park was unlikely to see the main sign and that the pubs advertising boards were a distraction; that if vehicles were parked in bays the signs would be obstructed; that users would be unlikely to see the pay machine if entering the back of the pub through the garden


I have received a reply from LPS sending me a copy of their estimate as to costs which comes to the £85 they want from me. They have declined to send me a copy of the contract stating they will provide POPLA with proof of authority. They have ignored everything else and simply stated that there is adequate signage, my appeal is refused and given me a POPLA code in order to appeal to them.


I guess I have a few questions for advice.
1. In refusing to supply me with a copy contract have they failed in some way that gives me grounds to refuse to pay as the keeper.
2. If I now appeal to POPLA do I have to identify the driver? If I write in the third person as keeper referring to the driver will POPLA give less weight to what I say.
3. I have taken photos of the sign at the entrance showing that the parking sign is difficult to see and that the pubs advertising boards are a more visible distraction. I have taken photos showing cars parked in the car park obscuring some, but not all the signs. When the car was parked it was busy and it may be that all the signs were obscured, I cannot now prove this. Does this sound like substantial grounds to show signage is inadequate?
4. Should I just say get stuffed, take it to Court and ignore the POPLA option?
5. Does anyone have any other suggestions at this stage?
Thank you
Paul

Fruitcake

silverpablito wrote: »

I guess I have a few questions for advice.
1. In refusing to supply me with a copy contract have they failed in some way that gives me grounds to refuse to pay as the keeper.
2. If I now appeal to POPLA do I have to identify the driver? If I write in the third person as keeper referring to the driver will POPLA give less weight to what I say.
3. I have taken photos of the sign at the entrance showing that the parking sign is difficult to see and that the pubs advertising boards are a more visible distraction. I have taken photos showing cars parked in the car park obscuring some, but not all the signs. When the car was parked it was busy and it may be that all the signs were obscured, I cannot now prove this. Does this sound like substantial grounds to show signage is inadequate?
4. Should I just say get stuffed, take it to Court and ignore the POPLA option?
5. Does anyone have any other suggestions at this stage?
Thank you
Paul

1 No.
2 No. Under no circumstances reveal who was driving.
3 One of your points will be inadequate signage.
4 It's your decision. Do you want to stand a fair chance of winning at PoPLA, or a fifty fifty chance of losing in court after a long hard fight?
5 Read the Sticky thread for NEWIES that explains the whole process, and then draft your appeal based on the most recent successful appeals from the POPLA Decisions sticky thread.
Your appeal should include, not the landowner, no standing to issue charges or court papers, inadequate signage, non POFA 2012 complaint NTK, and anything else you can find.

fisherjim

Also does the Pub figure on Trip Advisor/facebook get on there and make a meal out of them and warn others about this scam, hit them in the pocket too!

Pretty effective considering the ammount of pubs closing down these days, and I know I used to work in the industry!

Coupon-mad

Your main POPLA point is likely to be that they've never sent a compliant Notice to Keeper in the post, as per Schedule4 of the POFA 2012 (check it against paragraph 8). Followed closely by the point that the appellant has not been evidenced to be the driver.

Have a read of the template POPLA appeal points posted this month in 'POPLA Decisions' at the top of this forum board. You can use them verbatim and there will be at least five points you can put together; no need to even write anything much from the top of your head. Signage is one of the templates shown in that thread, as is the fact there is no evidence of the driver being the individual appellant they are pursuing for the charge.