Were the Vendors trying it on?

kwackerman

Hi,

We are in the process of purchasing a house which was originally a council house but was sold to it's tenant in the early 1980's. The current owner bought it in 2012, did a few improvements and has rented it out for the last few years.

When the land registry search results came back it showed that the front garden and drive way were not part of the freehold to the house but we had a right of way over the land into the property ( common I believe with ex council houses). We were not happy with this arrangement and instructed our solicitor to inform the vendor that if the land in front of the property was not included we would pull out of the purchase.

A week later we received another land registry plan showing the land in front had been purchased by the vendor and is included in the sale. They have explained that it appears that "upon the purchase of the land at the front of the property the title was not merged" An amended contract to include the land at the front was also supplied for us to sign.

What I'd like your opinion on is do you think,
a) it was just a simple oversight
b) Would the land have been ours anyway?
c) Were they attempting to keep hold of the land with the hope of selling it to us for an inflated price in the future if we had not been on the ball.

I suspect c myself which really annoys me almost to the point of pulling out of the purchase anyway; plenty more houses on the market all of which are more than suitable..

[Deleted User]

I don't think this is a useful question to ask us. We aren't mind readers, we don't know the vendor.., any answer any of us give can be no more valid than flipping a coin.

If you are that unimpressed with the property, the only reason to keep on with the sale is to avoid wasting your legal costs. Why did you put an offer in if there are so many alternatives? I think that's the important question.., why did this one stand out from the rest.., if it did.

Or look at it the other way., has the vendor done other things to put you off the property now? Or is it just time to throw toys out of the pram (not meant insultingly, some people do do this)?

But it has to be your decision.

G_M

kwackerman wrote: »

What I'd like your opinion on is do you think,
a) it was just a simple oversight Most likely, but can't be certain
b) Would the land have been ours anyway? No. If you'd just bought 1 of the 2 Titles, you would have owned just that Title. The 2nd Title (front garden) would have remained in the previous owner's name
c) Were they attempting to keep hold of the land with the hope of selling it to us for an inflated price in the future if we had not been on the ball.It is possible though I doubt it.

I suspect c myself which really annoys me almost to the point of pulling out of the purchase anyway; plenty more houses on the market all of which are more than suitable..

When property buying, the stress is great. Things always take longer than expected/wanted. Unexpected issues always arise. And it is easy to become paranoid.

If you are not too bothered about this property, and really suspect the sellers were being sneaky, by all means pull out. But chances are the next seller will also do something to upset or annoy you - that's the nature of property!

And look at it this way - either you and /or your solicitor (if you use one) were pretty well bound to look at the Title document and Plan. It's a standard, and critical, part of the conveyancing process. So the likelihood of this going undetected was always pretty remote.

kwackerman

deannatrois wrote: »

I don't think this is a useful question to ask us. We aren't mind readers, we don't know the vendor.., any answer any of us give can be no more valid than flipping a coin.

If you are that unimpressed with the property, the only reason to keep on with the sale is to avoid wasting your legal costs. Why did you put an offer in if there are so many alternatives? I think that's the important question.., why did this one stand out from the rest.., if it did.

Or look at it the other way., has the vendor done other things to put you off the property now? Or is it just time to throw toys out of the pram (not meant insultingly, some people do do this)?

But it has to be your decision.

I have just asked for opinions, based I suppose on other peoples experiences really, no more no less. At no point have I said or suggested that I am unimpressed with the property.
I don't know about you but if you buy a car for example it's sod's law that as soon as you part with the money a better one becomes available. I've spent the last nine months looking at property, waiting for our place to attract a buyer, see houses I'd love to have bought get sold before we can put in an offer. Now we have sold our place and put an offer on one we like does not mean that we automatically stop taking an interest in other property that comes on the market.

mije1983

kwackerman wrote: »

At no point have I said or suggested that I am unimpressed with the property.

Rightly or wrongly, it was probably the below comment that led to that conclusion.

kwackerman wrote: »

plenty more houses on the market all of which are more than suitable..

If you are that distrusting of the vendors and their honesty or intentions, and the property really isn't that special, then by all means pull out. You need to be happy with the purchase.

Personally, I think it was more likely to be an oversight. Having said that though, you are the only one here who has met the vendors so maybe they really are as sneaky as you think.

moneyistooshorttomention

Probably just an oversight I would have thought.

It's so obvious that, of course, a house owns its front garden and driveway that I don't suppose it crossed their mind to think it would count as being a "separate Title" to the rest of the property.

I'd just regard it as a "technicality" that part of the property was down as being a separate Title and would have expected that I would obviously be buying all the property - even if it were down as 2 Titles. It's as well, in law, to ensure both Titles are yours and, for future reference, combined into one Title.

If your solicitor hadn't alerted you to your front garden/drive not being technically yours you would have just used them as per normal anyway.

If vendor had to buy his own front garden/drive off the Council - then I'd guess they only charged him a nominal amount for them anyway and if they hadn't technically been yours on moving then the Council would have only charged you that nominal amount to put right the paperwork.

After all - I thoroughly disagree with "adverse possession" normally - as it's usually used to nick someone else's land as far as I can see. But, in this instance, that garden would be your own land (as its the garden of your house) and you could have just tidied things up legally by doing that anyway - and the Council would know that.

Davesnave

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

If vendor had to buy his own front garden/drive off the Council - then I'd guess they only charged him a nominal amount for them anyway and if they hadn't technically been yours on moving then the Council would have only charged you that nominal amount to put right the paperwork.

....in this instance, that garden would be your own land (as its the garden of your house) and you could have just tidied things up legally by doing that anyway - and the Council would know that.

Not correct, I'm afraid. The land was sold and it matters not how much was paid, so the council would have no interest or influence over it now.

I agree with deanna; it's for the OP to decide what to do, and they will never know for sure what the intentions of the vendors were. That's life!

moneyistooshorttomention

Blame my not having had my first cup of coffee for the day yet Dave - for brain being only 90% awake at the moment. Of course - the Council had already sold it (ie to vendor). Duh! Slap head smilie!

But - as you say, sometimes it's not possible to work out other peoples intentions (as they think so differently to oneself).

kwackerman

mije1983 wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly, it was probably the below comment that led to that conclusion.




If you are that distrusting of the vendors and their honesty or intentions, and the property really isn't that special, then by all means pull out. You need to be happy with the purchase.

Personally, I think it was more likely to be an oversight. Having said that though, you are the only one here who has met the vendors so maybe they really are as sneaky as you think.

Thanks for your comments. We have never met the vendors and nowadays based on our experience and those of various friends it is not common to ever meet the person buying or selling a home. When we put my fathers property on the market earlier this year we were positively discouraged from being present when the agent showed people around and have never met the person who bought it. Similarly, we were never around when people were shown round our house and that was how Pinkmove wanted it. Only one vendor was present when we looked around about 12 properties. This mirrors the experience of many friends of ours, most never met the vendor/buyer at any stage.

G_M

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But - as you say, sometimes it's not possible to work out other peoples intentions (as they think so differently to oneself).

I struggle with this fact every day.

My intentions and thoughts are so self-evidently the right intentions, and the correct way to think, that it baffles me that others have alternative intentions and thoughts.....

Davesnave

kwackerman wrote: »

Thanks for your comments. We have never met the vendors and nowadays based on our experience and those of various friends it is not common to ever meet the person buying or selling a home. When we put my fathers property on the market earlier this year we were positively discouraged from being present when the agent showed people around and have never met the person who bought it. Similarly, we were never around when people were shown round our house and that was how Pinkmove wanted it. Only one vendor was present when we looked around about 12 properties. This mirrors the experience of many friends of ours, most never met the vendor/buyer at any stage.

It depends on the area of the country, the type of property and the agreement one has with the agent.

Our last sale was roughly 50:50 agent and ourselves doing the viewing, and the one 2 years before that, entirely agent-led.

With the sort of property we own now, it's unusual for the agent to do the viewings. They don't like long walks! :rotfl: