green ebergy in new houses

Ken68

Don't see how that can be megs. The land cost will stay the same.Insulation isn't that expensive so where does the £30,000 go. No doubt, extra for the architect, extra for the planners, extra for the developer. Perhaps even a bonus for the chaps that actually build it.
Like you say, bandwagon effect.

nzmegs

I think the main cost is the solar panels wind turbines and water reycyling - as i said this is 0 carbon. For example the water from your bath or shower is rerouted to your toilet. Everything is used and used again. These systems are expensive because very few people buy them therefore they are "luxury" and also they need to look good. meaning they need to be hidden in walls which all involves extra work. To be honest tho I think that planning is the worst obstacle in the way of achieving these objectives. It takes months to get these things approved which all costs money...
Our company is trying to be innovative in it's approach to this one test house and is trying out new concepts and techniques. it may work out cheaper once the more expensive ideas are thrown aside in favour of simpler ideas. But I am no expert - merely the receptionist!!

Ken68

Tommy Walsh has done an eco house..The Fenland District Council says tis the most eco house built in the area.
On Discovery channel early October. Built it for £60k in 60 days.
Doubt that includes the cost of the land.

yakky58

Hi Cardew,

I did post elsewhere on the forums the savings on bills from the year before I had panels put in and for the year after. It just so happened that the day I activated happened to be a bill date. I don't have the exact figures they are in my case file at home but the electric bill went down by about £270.00. the gas bill by about £140.00.

What I can tell you is that in 18months I have generated 3660 Kwh
Of which I have exported 1992Kwh.

I have a contract with Southern Electric who subtract from my bill the KwH exported from those inducted. So for each one I export I get one off the bill.
Southern gave me my export meter free and installed for free. I have a contract with them that covers the house, not me personally. To set it up was three emails and signing a contract that came in the post. it took 7 days and was perhaps the easiest thing in the whole process.

I am also a registered Ofgem generator, for what that is worth, and for anyone thinking of doing it, well its a painful process. I have been allocated two ROCs so far and what they are worth I do not know but will find out shortly.

As for the costs of solar, the link was from the USA in Colorado where I have lived, the state university estimate that the production cost is now $1/watt. Yes that is expensive but significantly less than 2 years ago. Reading what they say, they aim to get those costs down further. I believe that to be positive news so maybe you wanna jump up the queue a bit Cardew ).

Yes mine do stop working at night but I work at night so I am lucky but I do produce for you in the day ). No one says you can't use the daylight to charge batteries if you really want.

There are many cowboys in this field and I am never sure that government regulation is much help. As an electrican the Part P has stopped cowboys doing shoddy work but has introduced additional costs for a piece of paper, often sold when its not needed, more cowboy tactics. Does a certificate really say the work is not shoddy or that the firm is trustworthy? Does not regulation also mean additional cost, I mean be honest the government has jumped on the green bandwagon and is talking of green taxes. Two years ago no one talked about green taxes. its another way to gather in cash to pay for more useless goverment departments.

How would I avoid cowboys? I would have a register with the government or a solar body (solar trade assoiciation) and every firm pay into an insurance fund to cover bad workmanship. Householders could then make a claim. the trade assoiciation could then publish a facts and figures.

Happy to chat further.

Cardew

yakk58,
From an earlier post you paid £8,500 for your system and did much of the installation work yourself. I have seen quotes around £15,000 for similar systems.

I simply want to talk 'back of an envelope' economics here.

To borrow(loss of savings) with interest at a very low figure of 5% your £8.5k will cost £425 a year. - For 'Mr Average' an installed system at a realistic rate for borrowing you are probably talking around £1,000 a year.

Now you are producing 2,500kWh per year of usable energy. I don't know what you get for selling some of that energy and ROCs but with most electricity around 8p/kWh your savings are £200 to £250 per year??

So the $64,000 question is how much(in strictly economic terms) is it reasonable to pay for a system that will produce 2,500kWh pa.

Obviously there are a lot of unknowns.
Future cost of electricity, maintenance of system(cleaning of panels on roof?).

Well personally, if I could get a system like yours fully set up for say £2,000 it will start to look attractive. Even then I doubt if it would pay back my 'investment' for many many years.

yakky58

Hi Cardew,

Agreed on quotes of upto 15K for a system. On that basis why would you do that?

I do not know what best economic rate is to install a system of 2,500W is. My system probably will never pay for itself for 15 years. I am quite open and honest about that. The link I provided above was merely to highlight that as we progress in this area the costs of manufacture are coming down. At a $1 a watt to produce that seems reasonable to me. They aim to halve that rate, lets hope they do.

I get the same rate for each exported kwH as I pay for one imported, so the bill works like 600 imported 400 exported I pay for 200. I can't say on the ROCs just yet I have not been paid, and HM Govt is never very prompt to hand out cash.

As far as maintenance is concerned, the trick is to ensure at installation time you minimise the maintenance costs. I am quite 'phobic' on maintenance in that before any project I spend a while thinking along the lines what will have to maintain in the future. So far in 18 months its been 3 washes of the panels. I used top quality cables and components and ensured they were routed to avoid sunlight and rain which through weathering causes problems. The sanyo panels I used were at the time the best you could buy. NB Avoid companies and buy direct if you can, often at half the price.

I can only forsee that energy and its consumption will become a new source of revenue for the govt. The current 5% VAT is a cheek (what value add does the govt provide?) and that is sure to rise in the future. My motto has always been ' don't steal the government doesn't like competition'. This is a way of minimising their theft.

If I had my way and the local authority would allow me I would have one of these...

http://www.magenn.com/

They won't unfortunately.

Anyway, thanks for keeping me honest Cardew and to those that read this think before you install Cardew is right on the economics front.

The 0 carbon home is a long way off.

ka7e

The estimated extra cost is about £30,000+. People simply will not pay that much more for a simple 3 bed house.

It may cost £30K extra to build a prototype using current technology and suppliers, but economies of scale must mean costs would fall if all major builders subscribed.

It isn't even a case of supply and demand. The eco-friendly houses just aren't being built in accessible areas - they are often built outside major housing areas to enhance their exclusivity! The well-off can buy a house with all the most up-to-date technology and then offset their efficiency by driving a MPV to get their kids to school.
It suits the major builders to build just a few flagship developments and charge premium prices.

adr0ck

all new homes will be eco homes by 2016 (part of the building regs)

with regards to the costs - yes of course its going to cost £30K + to add these features in

features include

solar panels (for water & elec) (7500)
ground source heat pumps (£7500)
water recycling (£3000)
wind turbines (£5000)
extra insulation (doubling cost of this now - say extra £1500)
Better spec windows (say extra £1000)
etc etc

plus don't forget the extra cost of land (walls have to increase insize from 300mm now to 500mm) thats an extra 400mm (both sides) (might not seem like much but means you can't squeeze as many plots onto a site)

Don't forget to get the eco grade new homes cannot connect to the gas supply

hopefully these costs will come down when more builders start to use them

adr0ck

ka7e wrote: »

It may cost £30K extra to build a prototype using current technology and suppliers, but economies of scale must mean costs would fall if all major builders subscribed.

It isn't even a case of supply and demand. The eco-friendly houses just aren't being built in accessible areas - they are often built outside major housing areas to enhance their exclusivity! The well-off can buy a house with all the most up-to-date technology and then offset their efficiency by driving a MPV to get their kids to school.
It suits the major builders to build just a few flagship developments and charge premium prices.

not one zero carbon home has been built yet

not one

zero

zilch

geordie_joe

adr0ck wrote: »

not one zero carbon home has been built yet

not one

zero

zilch

They have, or as near as damnit to zero. But they have been built by individuals who intend to live in them.

Not one has been built for resale to the public.