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Breach of contract renting
danny7147
Posts: 3 Newbie
Hi all, it's my first post on MSE, but a friend recommended me here as we're getting ourselves bogged down in legal stuff that we're reading online but only getting a few straight answers. I do know (which is rare!) that we've got the upper hand in this matter, the question is how we use it!
Let me start by saying that the majority of this applies to a commercial property, so a lot of residential rules won't apply.
We've lived in our house (rented) since 2012, and started our business in 2014. I don't want to go into a huge amount of personal details, but I will fill in as many gaps as I can. Our business is primarily web and telephone based, and the only impact it has on our house is that it's the registered address. Nobody ever knocks on our front door.
At the start of 2015 we received a letter from the landlord, don't think a one man band, think an organisation with about 500 properties, saying that we were being summoned for a meeting. At the meeting it transpired that a clause in our tenancy was that we weren't allowed to "run a business from our address" so faced a month to relocate or be evicted. It led to some serious head scratching, but two days later the shop opposite our house came up for rent. It was tiny, 30 yards away, and cheap at £200 a month. Ironically it was actually being rented through the same landlord, so it fitted the bill and we took over the lease in March 2015.
Things with the business have gone really well, we still don't ever need to be in the shop, but we use it for the occasional business meeting, paperwork storage, and mainly as advertising with signs plastered over the windows.
At the end of July this year I came back from a night away, about 5am, and found the shop had been broken into. The front door had been broken, the shop ransacked, but there was nothing of value inside so other than a couple of trivial things like cans out of the fridge, nothing was missing. We called the Police, got a crime reference number, and the Police noted at the time that the front door was rotten and required replacing anyway. At 9am we called the landlord and were told that they'd have their builders fit a new door. We went about our business for the day and didn't really pay it any more thought.
When we got back at around 4pm, the first thing I noticed was that they'd fitted a residential style door rather than the one with a big glass window that had been there beforehand. I questioned why and got told that it was because "they" were out of stock of commercial ones, but one was on order.
The next day, I called the landlord to ask when they were fitting a glass one as the new door simply made the shop look like a house with big windows, and got laughed and and told that as the new door had been cut to fit, it was now unusable so they weren't going to be replacing it. As the call went on, the guy asked if I was going to be paying for the door today. I nearly dropped the phone, this was the first I'd heard of it. I asked what they were expecting, and he said that their standard fee was £250.
Well, over the past month we've simply refused to pay a penny towards the door, not believing ourselves liable. We got told twice that our account was in arrears to the sum of the £250, but we kept the rent side up to date.
Two weeks ago when the rent was last due, we paid the rent for the shop as usual, and then the house. It takes two calls as they run their residential side seperately from their commercial, and that's when the real fun began. We paid the regular £300 (shop plus garage), called residential and then got told that they'd found an overpayment of £180 that they'd transferred to the shop account "to go towards the rent"... after calling commerical again, they had actually used this money towards the door instead so I find this an exceptionally underhand way of obtaining money. Nevertheless, I knew that they'd obtained the money by deception so I called a few lawyers and Citizens Advice that morning to ask opinions. They were all unanimous, which was that if it didn't state in the lease that we were liable for criminal damage, we shouldn't have been charged and they were in breach of contract.
There was only one problem, which was that we didn't have a copy of the lease.
My wife went around there, hot headed, and after being told by three people that the "person who looks after the contracts wasn't in today", threatening her with eviction from the house, telling her to leave, sit down, shut up and get out, she resisted and finally came away with a copy of the lease. During the hour long altercation she DID say to a rotund woman that kept swearing at her that she would "make her give it to her", but that's for a little later in the story. She got a copy.
Now, when we started reading, it didn't state that we were liable for criminal damage, but more than that, we also found that they'd breached the agreement on a couple of other things as well. We received a letter a month ago saying the rent was going up due to an increase in building insurance (which they are liable for) which they aren't allowed to do, and also that the rent increase fell before the date of the first rent review. We consulted the lawyers and CA again, and it was again unanimous that they were in breach and we should write to them with a formal letter explaining why.
We did, and sent it recorded and they signed for delivery on the 10th September.
Today, I went to the shop for the first time in a week and found a hand delivered letter. Opened it, and got a letter from the landlord saying that we were being evicted "due to her unacceptable behaviour" and need to vacate the premises by the 13th October. The date on the letter was the 10th September, the same day that they'd received notification that they were in breach of contract. Ironic huh?
Well, that's the situation we're in now. It won't be a massive headache if we lose the shop, other than that it will mean us finding another one as we'll be into the whole "running a business from our house" situation again, but I'd like to know where we go from here.
They've missed the deadline to respond to my original letter, so it will now come to legal action... but will that be small claims or need a lawyers?
Also, as it's for "unacceptable behaviour" with no reference to rent payments, are they allowed to evict us under this premise or should it take a court order to enforce? I did read about a peaceful re-entry situation, but didn't state anything about reasons other than rent. Also, presumable from a court point of view her behaviour can't have been "that" unacceptable if the Police weren't called to escort her off of the premises?
I'd love to hear some opinions, and if anyone is suitable qualified I'd really like to know some laws that I can throw back at them too!
Let me start by saying that the majority of this applies to a commercial property, so a lot of residential rules won't apply.
We've lived in our house (rented) since 2012, and started our business in 2014. I don't want to go into a huge amount of personal details, but I will fill in as many gaps as I can. Our business is primarily web and telephone based, and the only impact it has on our house is that it's the registered address. Nobody ever knocks on our front door.
At the start of 2015 we received a letter from the landlord, don't think a one man band, think an organisation with about 500 properties, saying that we were being summoned for a meeting. At the meeting it transpired that a clause in our tenancy was that we weren't allowed to "run a business from our address" so faced a month to relocate or be evicted. It led to some serious head scratching, but two days later the shop opposite our house came up for rent. It was tiny, 30 yards away, and cheap at £200 a month. Ironically it was actually being rented through the same landlord, so it fitted the bill and we took over the lease in March 2015.
Things with the business have gone really well, we still don't ever need to be in the shop, but we use it for the occasional business meeting, paperwork storage, and mainly as advertising with signs plastered over the windows.
At the end of July this year I came back from a night away, about 5am, and found the shop had been broken into. The front door had been broken, the shop ransacked, but there was nothing of value inside so other than a couple of trivial things like cans out of the fridge, nothing was missing. We called the Police, got a crime reference number, and the Police noted at the time that the front door was rotten and required replacing anyway. At 9am we called the landlord and were told that they'd have their builders fit a new door. We went about our business for the day and didn't really pay it any more thought.
When we got back at around 4pm, the first thing I noticed was that they'd fitted a residential style door rather than the one with a big glass window that had been there beforehand. I questioned why and got told that it was because "they" were out of stock of commercial ones, but one was on order.
The next day, I called the landlord to ask when they were fitting a glass one as the new door simply made the shop look like a house with big windows, and got laughed and and told that as the new door had been cut to fit, it was now unusable so they weren't going to be replacing it. As the call went on, the guy asked if I was going to be paying for the door today. I nearly dropped the phone, this was the first I'd heard of it. I asked what they were expecting, and he said that their standard fee was £250.
Well, over the past month we've simply refused to pay a penny towards the door, not believing ourselves liable. We got told twice that our account was in arrears to the sum of the £250, but we kept the rent side up to date.
Two weeks ago when the rent was last due, we paid the rent for the shop as usual, and then the house. It takes two calls as they run their residential side seperately from their commercial, and that's when the real fun began. We paid the regular £300 (shop plus garage), called residential and then got told that they'd found an overpayment of £180 that they'd transferred to the shop account "to go towards the rent"... after calling commerical again, they had actually used this money towards the door instead so I find this an exceptionally underhand way of obtaining money. Nevertheless, I knew that they'd obtained the money by deception so I called a few lawyers and Citizens Advice that morning to ask opinions. They were all unanimous, which was that if it didn't state in the lease that we were liable for criminal damage, we shouldn't have been charged and they were in breach of contract.
There was only one problem, which was that we didn't have a copy of the lease.
My wife went around there, hot headed, and after being told by three people that the "person who looks after the contracts wasn't in today", threatening her with eviction from the house, telling her to leave, sit down, shut up and get out, she resisted and finally came away with a copy of the lease. During the hour long altercation she DID say to a rotund woman that kept swearing at her that she would "make her give it to her", but that's for a little later in the story. She got a copy.
Now, when we started reading, it didn't state that we were liable for criminal damage, but more than that, we also found that they'd breached the agreement on a couple of other things as well. We received a letter a month ago saying the rent was going up due to an increase in building insurance (which they are liable for) which they aren't allowed to do, and also that the rent increase fell before the date of the first rent review. We consulted the lawyers and CA again, and it was again unanimous that they were in breach and we should write to them with a formal letter explaining why.
We did, and sent it recorded and they signed for delivery on the 10th September.
Today, I went to the shop for the first time in a week and found a hand delivered letter. Opened it, and got a letter from the landlord saying that we were being evicted "due to her unacceptable behaviour" and need to vacate the premises by the 13th October. The date on the letter was the 10th September, the same day that they'd received notification that they were in breach of contract. Ironic huh?
Well, that's the situation we're in now. It won't be a massive headache if we lose the shop, other than that it will mean us finding another one as we'll be into the whole "running a business from our house" situation again, but I'd like to know where we go from here.
They've missed the deadline to respond to my original letter, so it will now come to legal action... but will that be small claims or need a lawyers?
Also, as it's for "unacceptable behaviour" with no reference to rent payments, are they allowed to evict us under this premise or should it take a court order to enforce? I did read about a peaceful re-entry situation, but didn't state anything about reasons other than rent. Also, presumable from a court point of view her behaviour can't have been "that" unacceptable if the Police weren't called to escort her off of the premises?
I'd love to hear some opinions, and if anyone is suitable qualified I'd really like to know some laws that I can throw back at them too!
0
Comments
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Far too much there to read, if you can condense it to the essential issue you might get better responses.
What I would say is that I can see no reason why your landlord should have any responsibility for criminal damage to the door, it's your property while you are renting it and you have the responsibility for ensuring it is secure.0 -
Unlikely to get much specialist knowledge of Commercial Leases here, however a couple of things....
(1). You certainly cannot be evicted on the say-so of anyone except a Court if you want to take it there.
(2). That does not mean you are in the right. You may lose more money by going to Court if you are in the wrong. Most Commercial Leases are "Fully repairing and Insuring" meaning that you are liable for both repairs and the Insurance bill. You cannot rely on the likes of Citizens Advice in this situation. With the best will in the world they are not going to be familiar with Commercial agreements. So if you want to fight this you need legal advice from a Solicitor with Commercial property expertise.0 -
Because they hold the responsibility for the building insurance, not us.
In the contract there is a list of "who is responsible for...", we're responsible for glass and contents, they're responsible for building insurance which would make the door a claim against their insurance.
Ironically, one of the things that one of the lawyers said was that they'd probably persue a claim of failing to adequately secure the premises, but as the front door was rotten (as stated by the Police), it would have taken us rebuilding the front of the shop to secure it against a break in.0 -
Completely agree anselld, but "fully repairing" etc is mentioned nowhere in the lease. It's actually a remarkably basic single page document that doesn't go into very much detail other than when the rent is to be paid, how much notice needs to be given, and who is responsible for the insurances.
As they are listed as responsible for the building insurance, a claim should presumably be persued through this even if it would raise their premium. A crime reference number can easily be provided.
The eviction situation is more interesting though, I know that we hold the upper hand on the contract, but I'm struggling to find out on any Google search whether they are allowed to gain "peaceful entry" on the basis of "unacceptable behaviour" as everything I've read seems to indicate that this is only permissable for unpaid rent although I'd love to read a legitimate link that says this.0 -
AFAIK peaceable reentry is only lawful where the premesis has been abandoned.0
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I find it rather surreal that you come to the MSE forum to discuss this problem. What does your solicitor say?0
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Go to a solicitor for commercial issues.0
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Because they hold the responsibility for the building insurance, not us.
In the contract there is a list of "who is responsible for...", we're responsible for glass and contents, they're responsible for building insurance which would make the door a claim against their insurance.
Ironically, one of the things that one of the lawyers said was that they'd probably persue a claim of failing to adequately secure the premises, but as the front door was rotten (as stated by the Police), it would have taken us rebuilding the front of the shop to secure it against a break in.
"responsible for buildings insurance" doesn't necessarily mean they need to pay all the costs for something which is an insured risk. The norm is that tenants pay the excess, for example (which I'd guess isn't less than £250).
As for the notice they've given you, I don't think you've told us what the term of the lease is?0
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