Land registry forms

treecol

After finally getting the grant of probate for my late mother in law, we now move onto the forms which we needed the grant for.
My late mother in law owned a piece of land with her brother (still alive) as beneficial tenants in common & this land as per her will, will pass to her husband. However, having just made an appointment with our solicitor to check I'm filling in the land registry forms correctly, the solicitors secretary said we would need permission from my late mil's brother as he is the other co-owner. She said if he will not give his permission for the land to pass to my fil, as restriction would have to be placed on the land.
Is that really correct? That would be a huge problem as her brother would never agree to it passing to my fil in spite of her will stating so.

chesky

Solicitors aren't infallible. You might try calling the Land Registry yourself; they're incredibly helpful and will steer you in the right direction. They certainly did with me, after a solicitor was less than helpful.

Yorkshireman99

treecol wrote: »

After finally getting the grant of probate for my late mother in law, we now move onto the forms which we needed the grant for.
My late mother in law owned a piece of land with her brother (still alive) as beneficial tenants in common & this land as per her will, will pass to her husband. However, having just made an appointment with our solicitor to check I'm filling in the land registry forms correctly, the solicitors secretary said we would need permission from my late mil's brother as he is the other co-owner. She said if he will not give his permission for the land to pass to my fil, as restriction would have to be placed on the land.
Is that really correct? That would be a huge problem as her brother would never agree to it passing to my fil in spite of her will stating so.

The co-wner cannot prevent the other passing their part by will. If need be the court will force him to do so and he will have to pay the costs. Somebody needs to talk some sense into him.

treecol

I will call the land registry, they already told me which forms to fill in. There is just one confusing question in which they say if it is left blank, they will put the restriction on the land. That made me worried hence involving solicitor.

Crabapple

Did they not say that the co-owner needs to sign the transfer forms?

I don't see how you could transfer the registered title without him doing so. The gift in the will stands, but you would have to protect that interest in another way like a restriction as stated.

treecol

The land registry emailed me some info yesterday following my initial call to them. I'm stuggeling to understand the terms in it, but it looks to me like her brother has to be named on the form & that would mean signing it too.
Trouble is, he would refuse to do so. He has always wanted the land for himself & would not do anything to enable my fil to inherit.

Yorkshireman99

treecol wrote: »

The land registry emailed me some info yesterday following my initial call to them. I'm stuggeling to understand the terms in it, but it looks to me like her brother has to be named on the form & that would mean signing it too.
Trouble is, he would refuse to do so. He has always wanted the land for himself & would not do anything to enable my fil to inherit.

In which case you are probably going to have to take him to court. A trip to the solicitor is called for as he can be forced to allow the registration. The other alternative would be to force a sale of the land.

Crabapple

You need to get a restriction placed on the title immediately.

He could otherwise transfer the title himself not to your FIL which will make matters more complicated.

Court action may be required but it's worth telling him the fact is he hasn't inherited and the share of the land is now your FILs irrespective of whether he signs or not, and as Yorkshireman says he can be taken to court to make him which will cost him.

treecol

Thank you both. I had no idea that this would be so complicated - I guess being joint tennants with a sibling who wants the land for himself raises issues the family feared would happen.
We'll see the solicitor on Tuesday & see how she advises we proceed.

Keep_pedalling

treecol wrote: »

The land registry emailed me some info yesterday following my initial call to them. I'm stuggeling to understand the terms in it, but it looks to me like her brother has to be named on the form & that would mean signing it too.
Trouble is, he would refuse to do so. He has always wanted the land for himself & would not do anything to enable my fil to inherit.

If he wants it all himself the solution is simple, he buys out the co owner.

Land_Registry

I suspect you may have already received this advice from us but posting in case it helps others who may view the post at some stage

The legal and beneficial ownership are quite separate. The legal ownership, which we register, was in their joint names so when one of them dies it passes to the survivor. They are then the sole surviving legal owner so if the land was to be sold/mortgage or otherwise 'dealt' with then the brother would have to be involved.

So in your example the brother would need to transfer the whole of the legal title from himself to himself and your late Mother's husband. Probate would not be required.

The TIC aspect is put in place to protect the beneficial ownership referred to. In essence that restricts the sole surviving owner in his dealings with the beneficial shares. It does not stop him from transferring the legal ownership. But if he sold it for example he would have to appoint someone to act with him to take receipt of the sale monies as the beneficial share is in those monies, namely the land's value, and not in the land itself.

If he is unwilling to transfer the ownership from himself in the way suggested then it is legal advice you need to ascertain whether there is any legal route available to you to force such a transfer. For example the TIC aspect may be seen as sufficient protection of the 'shares' involved so all the time the legal ownership remains at it is then that is still deemed to be protected in the eyes of the law.

Forcing a sale to release the beneficial share in the value may be a different matter though but it's legal advice you need here to understand what rights the brother and the husband may have.

The final point was re protecting the interest in some other way, e.g. a restriction. Legal advice needed again as the view may be that the existing form A restriction presumably already in place is deemed sufficient to protect the inherited share. Remember the inherited share is in the beneficial ownership and therefore the value of the land itself.

It is complicated and no easy way of explaining such things especially as a significant part revolves around the beneficial ownership and not the legal one which we register.