Sleepover rate vs NMW back pay???

foxtrot94

Hello
I have been doing sleepover since 2013. Is it possible to get all the sleepover back paid?


Also is it total number of hours + total sleepover hours x NMW for that year. If less than got paid is that the difference to claim OR is it purely the sleepover hours that need to be above NMW?


I want to make sure i'm entitled to back pay before I dig through wage slips - also do I need to contact solicitors or will strongly worded letter do to previous and current employers.



Your help is appreciated!





Ellie Cameron

sangie595

The case law on this area is complex. Just because you do sleepovers does not mean that you are entitled to be paid for them. So why do you think you should be?

foxtrot94

I have d ok me extensive research and the law says just because we're asleep entitled to nmw

sjbrun

If this is in relation to the care workers which is currently going to court then you will have to wait to see if they win their case or not as that will set a president which everyone else will have to follow.

It is unlikely they will win as it will mean the cost of care for everyone will be unaffordable.

I don't know why people expect to be paid while they are asleep but that's what their case is about.

foxtrot94

Thank you for your reply however if you have never done this line of work your comment is a little rude. You dine necessarily sleep on a sleepover you are on call over night there ready if someone needs support. I'm sorry but wouldn't u want to paid be nmw? If it was any other line of work below nmw would not be allowed!
and it likely to win if you read articles on line many people have won at the end of the day it's illegal not to be paid nmw

shortcrust

It sounds like you know it all already. I'm not sure what you're wanting from people on here.

foxtrot94

'Also is it total number of hours + total sleepover hours x NMW for that year. If less than got paid is that the difference to claim OR is it purely the sleepover hours that need to be above NMW?'

sangie595

sjbrun wrote: »

It is unlikely they will win as it will mean the cost of care for everyone will be unaffordable.
.

The law does not use such a test to determine cases. Making care more expensive will not feature in any decision.

OP, the current case, if that is your spur, win or lose, will not help you. It is only at an employment tribunal, and they cannot and do not create case law. I asked you a perfectly reasonable question, which you have failed to answer. The case law on sleepovers is complex and, in places, contradictory. A quick google certainly won't tell you much. Case law is a difficult area of law, because it is based on the specifics of a particular case, and so is not generally applicable in the same way that laws or regulations of parliament are. So, "I did sleepovers and google says I should be paid" will not wash with anyone. As a result, your "strongly worded" letters may only result in unemployment. You do not threaten your employers without a bit more than a google search to back you up - especially since people who google tend never to read the stuff they don't want to hear! So unless you can detail the number of cases in this area that have lost (and there are many), you aren't reading the whole story.

Now you can do as I asked and explain what makes you think you are owed money, or you can start paying out for a solicitor who will happily spend your money, whether or not you are owed any! And I would remind you that this is a complex area of law, fraught with contradictions - do you happen to know of any solicitors who will definitely know the law? Because being a solicitor does not actually mean that they do - that is why there are barristers, and why those barristers specialise. You may be lucky enough to find a very experienced and capable solicitor - these pages are, however, littered with people who didn't! Saying you have a case and winning it are so much not the same thing. Because there is no legal aid, so you will be paying a bill, win or lose. No county court is going to touch this type of law because it is so fraught - it will have to go to an employment tribunal for a determination of the law in the matter. And that is a bill that just keeps growing. So you want to be sure of your ground first, before issuing a claim. Plus, in the case of past employers, you will have to demonstrate that they owe you money (law cannot be applied retrospectively) and why you should be allowed to make a claim past the three months less a day deadline (which you probably won't be allowed to do).

Now I am not a lawyer, but I probably (make that definitely) know a lot more about this subject than you do, AND I have access to the full background case law, including why cases have failed. So you can continue on your merry way arguing with people about this, pay a solicitor and hope you get a good one, or answer my question!

marliepanda

I have a few friends who work in care and they are paid £30 for a sleepover (of 8 hours)

If they are woken up and have to 'work' then they log that as a working hour and get paid their hourly rate.

I also know other people who work on call and they are not paid NMW for each hour they are on call. There is a call rate and then their hourly rate kicks in if they are actually called to work.

Bogalot

marliepanda wrote: »

I have a few friends who work in care and they are paid £30 for a sleepover (of 8 hours)

If they are woken up and have to 'work' then they log that as a working hour and get paid their hourly rate.

I also know other people who work on call and they are not paid NMW for each hour they are on call. There is a call rate and then their hourly rate kicks in if they are actually called to work.

I'm assuming the other people are not restricted to their work premises whilst on call? As for your friends in care, they really should look into what they are entitled to.

This is still an uncertain area, and it's not as simple as whether you can leave the premises or not (some may live in house, and NMW would not usually apply in such a case), but plenty of care employers are (begrudgingly) following the principle that sleep in hours do count towards the NMW calculation.

In answer to the OP's question, if you qualify then you need to be paid above NMW when you average out your total hours, so your salary must be equal to (working hours + sleep in) x 7.20 at current rates.

Case law on back payments is even more complicated, but it is all readily available online. If your library has access to a reference service you'll also be able to read academic opinion on the subject, which may (or may not!) give you a clearer view than the judgments themselves. If you know anyone in higher education they'll no doubt be able to access such information as well.

Don't set out thinking this will be as simple as writing a letter, but also don't be put off by those suggesting you're not capable.

sangie595, I'm assuming you got out of bed the wrong side this morning, your rant is completely out of line. You can be incredibly helpful but sometimes you come across as a know it all, and that doesn't do you justice one bit.

sangie595

No I didn't, and it was not a rant. It was a warning not to start sending strongly worded letters on a subject you don't fully understand and expect to have a job at the end of it. If the OP wants to take that line, they shouldn't be surprised when the dismissal letter arrives. The majority of care sector employers are very careful now about the law, and have resources to check they aren't outside it. They may be rubbish employers often, but they are prepared rubbish employers.